mR and difference between RAAT / NAA

I guess I have a similar problem. I am using a cisco SG-200-08 switch as well. I have roon server on a 615NUC with 16GB ram. I replaced the switch with a cheap netgear GS605 switch and the problem disappeared.

I ordered a TL-SG108E switch instead, and this switch has the same problem like the cisco.

Looking at the resource monitor, for the TP-Link it looks like. Same behaviour like the cisco.

The netgear seems to do a better job:

My network looks like:
Router -> 15 cable -> switch.
Attached to the switch I have:

  1. the Roon-Nuc (music on a 2TB internal SSD)
  2. sotm iso cat6 -> 15m CAT6 cable -> microRendu (RAAT)
  3. iMac
  4. NAS

The problem remains, when I switch off the mac and the NAS. It even remains, when I plug out the cable to the router and only have the NUC and mR attached to the switch.

On the NUC I run room-server, fidelizer and HQ-Player. I use HQ player to upsample to max 88 or 96.

Any idea what kind of switch settings to use? I tried it with factory settings and QoS enabled.

It seems that this set up doesnā€™t like managed switches. Any idea?

Oops, I went back to a roon only set up, and this works with the TP-Link switch without a hitch. Fidelizer is still activated.

Thank goodness someone else also has an issue with this. I was really starting to feel like highlander! :slight_smile:

I would rather be listening to music than being a network trouble shooterā€¦

Agree and although I do not expect software developers to solve consumer network issues, I am still missing a response from the HQplayer team as to the difference between RAAT and NAA from a network protocol perspective ā€¦ :frowning:

I now also have microRendu so I can do some testing. I have my Linux workstation with Intel gigabit NIC connected to a gigabit HP smart switch (CAT 6) and then microRendu connected to the same switch using a not-so-great-but-convenient flat ribbon CAT 5E cable. DAC used for testing was iFi iDSD Nano.

MR is running latest 2.2 software (so NAA 3.4.0) and HQPlayer is 3.14 beta6 (practically same as beta5).

Iā€™ve been playing for several hours everything upsampled to DSD256 without any glitches. Not a single one.

I am now playing from Win10 machine on the same switch, from a network share and Windows is downloading and installing updates in the background at the same time. No glitches either.

@mjazz I would recommend trying to remove any special cables and network isolators and such and use some normal 5ā‚¬ cables like I doā€¦ (USB cable is HiSpeed certified though)

Also testing more complex setup from my listening room to the office:

Mac Mini running Roon (playing RedBook from local Thunderbolt HDD) -> dumb gigabit switch -> smart gigabit switch -> smart gigabit switch -> HQPlayer on Win10 -> smart gigabit switch -> microRendu -> iDSD Nano @DSD256

Everything works fineā€¦

I have similar issues with my RaspberryPi3, where RAAT at 24/96 or DSD64 streams with zero hiccups, but the same things using Roon->HQP/NAA often stutters. I also found the version of NAA on my RPi made a lot of difference, but even the latest isnā€™t perfect.

Hi Jussi,

Thanks for the feedback. Is Roon Server running in your setup and if so, from which device?

Is Roon Server the headless version? No, I have never tried that. Just the normal Roon with a GUI.

I also have an issue with HQP NAA + Sonicorbiter in combination with a Cisco SG 200-18 switch.
When the backend is set to NAA in HQ Player, the device list remains empty.

I tried my Sonicorbiter in another location with a totally different network and I could get it working either with HQP alone or Roon+HQP. But in my main setup with the Cisco switch, it does not work at all. And BTW, in this setup with a Cisco switch, Roon alone (without HQP) is working fine (and everything else is fine), only HQP/NAA is not working.

Is there a known issue with NAA in combination with Cisco switches ?

This switch is known to be problematic with microRenduā€¦

Not as such with NAA + Cisco, but in this case with the ethernet interface of microRendu and the Cisco switch.

HP and Netgear gigabit smart switches have been working fine for me so far, in combination with microRendu.

Thanks for the feedback Jussi.

I guess Cisco is not going to fix their switch for microrendu :slight_smile:
So it would be more an issue for Sonoreā€¦

I may give a try to another switch later but I am not going to change my infrastructure only for that reason.

Likely not, but having the problem in first place is a bit surprising. In any case it is always good to check that you have the latest firmware version in the switch tooā€¦

Interesting. Do you have a reference from another forum where this has been discussed?

Thx.

Have a look to this discussion on computeraudiophile forums
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonicorbiter-naa-output-mode-27274/index6.html#post585089
Cisco managed switches do not transmit mutlicast (used by NAA) by default, I had to change a setting in the Cisco and HQP now works as intended with my Cisco SG 200-18 !

Thx for this. Really appreciated :slight_smile:

I noticed you mentioned you changed your multicast forward all settings for your audio VLAN in your post. Curious as to what that (audio VLAN) is? You also mentioned that you changed a setting in HQP, which one was that?

I think John Swenson was using a different Cisco managed switch for his test, he mentioned the audio VLAN (not me), this was probably specific to his Cisco managed switch.

My switch is the SG 200-18, it does not have an ā€œaudio VLANā€. I only changed the settings in ā€œMulticastā€->ā€œForward allā€-> set ports to ā€œstaticā€ (by default they were set to ā€œnoneā€). See the picture I posted on computeraudiophile.

I suppose it is not really necessary to set ALL ports to ā€œstaticā€ but only the ports on which HQP and Sonicorbiter/Microrendu are connectedā€¦ however I did not have too much time to experiment, so I changed them all.

I did not change any settings in HQP to make it work (beside ticking the box to generate the logs for this investigation),

So I changed the setting in Multicast -> Forward All to ā€œstaticā€ for all ports and had the impression that the response time for Roon took a hit. It seemed to be noticeably slower. I also started experiencing drops even at a 96/24 sampling rate which wasnā€™t the case beforeā€¦

I probably need to do more tweaking (i.e. not setting all ports to static) and still believe the problem relates to the multicast setting of the Cisco. Unfortunately I am not a Cisco engineer and a lot of what I attempt is purely trial and errorā€¦

What is the difference between RAAT and NAA ? (And/or Roon bridge)

To me it seems to be network protocols meant to do the same. Roon invented RAAT. Who made NAA ? Is it a standard ? Have Jussi made his own version of NAA ? And Jesus another version for the mR ?