I use a group of two Roon ready devices for multiroom playback. For a few weeks now I have a problem in that the playback on the two devices starts OK but after a few tracks gets out of sync
Describe your network setup
Roon server running on Mac Mini (OS 10.15.7, 2.5GHz intel core i5. 8Gb DDR3). FLAC files on Synology DS 118. Variety of endpoints: Naim Muso, Naim Muso Qb, Naim ND5XS2 (+Chord MScaler / Chord TT2). Issue seen with both wired and wireless connections.
I am pretty sure I can exclude any issues with the Naim gear in that the playback remains in sync when using Naim multiroom.
The only way to bring them back into sync is to edit the Zone grouping delay in device setup - a change of 1ms brings it back. However it soon drifts again. Starting and stopping playback doesn’t work - this was something that worked in the past when I had the same issue using a RPi as an endpoint.
I’ve tried adding Resync delay, and also changed master clock priority from default to 1(highest), sadly neither have an effect.
I’ve also rebooted the whole network from cable modem through to endpoints, and I’ve reinstalled the Roon server on the mac mini, keeping the database. Neither had an effect.
Thanks for reaching out with your message! For us to be able to better assist you, can we kindly ask that you resubmit a proper support ticket by filling out the questionnaire using the below link? Please select the option that best matches your specific issue type instead of simply selecting “other”, as this form was created to help diagnose issues while gathering information and it will allow the support team to be able to best assist with your specific issue type. In your case I would suggest picking “I’m having trouble playing music.” Thank you!
Thanks for the quick reply. I tried that but there doesn’t seem to be any option for reporting grouping issues, and if I choose others to see what happens I always seem to come to a wall at ‘Device trouble shooting’ since none of the options offered apply - all devices appear and they have the correct protocol.
Can you suggest a route for reporting issues around ‘grouping’ ? If there isn’t one could you possibly transfer this to the support team most likely to be able to help ?
In case it’s useful I had to consider when trying the above:
Zones affected are all network based (I don’t have any sources attached directly)
I get the issue with both locally streamed files and files streamed from Qobuz
I only have FLAC files
I don’t use DSP
I do apply volume levelling across the group, but disabling it doesn’t have any effect
I set the max sample rate (PCM) to be ‘up to 48kHz’; resetting it to the default (‘up to 384kHz’ has no effect
Some progress in that this issue does not occur with the Muso and Muso Qb in an airplay group . I am not set up to try chromecast.
I’ve not had any luck in fixing it for grouped RAAT endpoints. I have tried:
Updating to build 1480
Creating a manual backup and restoring the database from that backup
I’ve looked in detail at the support ticket portal with the aim of creating a proper ticket, but haven’t been able to find a route through it. The only relevant choice I appear to have after ‘I’m having trouble playing music’ is ‘I hear noise or distortion when playing music’. However doing that I end up at the following screen where none of the options apply.
Thank you for your detailed responses and patience so far!
To confirm, you’re only seeing this sync issue with your Naim ND5XS2 when in a grouped zone with your other Naim devices over Roon Ready?
What, if any, differences in setup does the ND5 have in comparison with your other endpoints? Are you able to get a direct ethernet connection to this endpoint from your primary router?
We’re attempting to enable diagnostics on your Roon Server machine, but struggling to connect. Could you please reproduce the issue, share the track name when the issue occurs, and then please use the directions found here and send over a set of Roon Server logs to our File Uploader?
Thanks for getting back to me. The problem is not just with the ND5XS2 - if I use just a Muso and a Muso Qb, both over wireless, then I also see it. But only with RAAT, not airplay. It’s not just Naim gear, I had a Moon Mind 2 on loan and that also had the problem.
I will reproduce it and send some logs when I get the chance, perhaps tomorrow or if not on Wed. Cheers
To hopefully simplify things I tweaked the RAAT zone (‘Kitchen RR + 1’) to just have the Muso (‘Kitchen RR’) and the Muso Qb (‘Office RR’), both on the same wifi network. I played the Santana Abraxus and playback was really out of sync when by the time I got to ‘Oye Coma Va’. Just before the end of that track I added 1ms delay to ‘Office RR’, which is the only way I know to bring them back into sync, played the remainder of that track, a little bit of the next (‘Incident at Nehsbar’), then stopped the Roon server and uploaded the Roon and Raat logs to the file uploader.
Thanks, @stevet for sending those over! Our team will take a closer look and investigate further. We’ll follow up with more information as soon as possible.
As a follow-up test, are you able to swap the physical location of the devices, as well as their positions in the network, and test to see if the drift also switches, or if it sticks with the same device?
Hi @benjamin. Interesting. I’ve swapped the physical location the Muso and the Muso Qb around and it’s always the Muso that gets behind. Annoyed I didn’t realise that earlier. FWIW I set up the group in both of two ways - Muso + Muso Qb and Muso Qb + Muso, no difference.
I did a factory reset on the Muso, with no effect.
What do you mean by ‘positions in the network’ ? After doing the factory reset it came back with the same DHCP assigned IP. Are you suggesting trying a static IPs, or using it wired (as a test) ?
Thanks for the additional info and testing @stevet!
The initial thought was around both devices being hardwired, and then swapping their ports/cables to see if that had any effect. Is this also something you’d be able to test in the meantime?
Hi @benjamin. Sure, I was able to set up two wired connections and plug the Muso / Muso Qb into each. The result is the same as with wireless connections - playback on the Muso always gets behind that from the Qb, no matter the combination of port and cable.
Thanks for the additional info and troubleshooting!
I know you’ve tested clock priority settings in the past, are you able to also test out selecting different devices, perhaps the Muso Qb as clock master for your group playback?
And my apologies if this has already been glazed over, but if you play the same track individually on each device not grouped together, do you experience any issues?
If you link the Muso Qb to a different device, does the same delay occur?
Hi @benjamin. Thanks for continuing to follow this up
I know you’ve tested clock priority settings in the past, are you able to also test out selecting different devices, perhaps the Muso Qb as clock master for your group playback?
I’ve set the master clock priority to ‘1 (highest)’ on either the Muso and the Muso Qb, with the other at ‘Default’. I’m afraid it makes no difference, the Muso still always gets behind
And my apologies if this has already been glazed over, but if you play the same track individually on each device not grouped together, do you experience any issues?
No issues when doing this (although I haven’t tried playing the same track at the same time on different devices)
If you link the Muso Qb to a different device, does the same delay occur?
I can link the Qb the ND5XS2 and it’s again solid. But linking the Muso and the ND5XS2 shows it. So the problem seems to be restricted to the Muso.
Someone else has recently posted on the Naim forum with an almost identical problem - their setup is Muso, Muso Qb and a Naim Uniti Atom (HE Edition) and, as for me, their Muso gets behind the others.
We saw this as well - I hope you’re able to find some additional support in this case. Unfortunately, we don’t have this specific generation of the device available in our testing lab at the moment. It may take some time before we’re able to source one and reproduce the issue in-house.
We sincerely apologize that we don’t have any immediate next steps to share. Rest assured, as soon as we’re able to test further with the same model, we’ll update you here with our findings. We truly appreciate your patience and understanding in the meantime!
Hi @benjamin thanks for the honest update, even if it’s not the news I was hoping for. One last thing…
My workaround for multiroom is to have a second zone with Airplay endpoints since that is stable. It’s lower quality sound compared to RAAT, but it doesn’t drive me nuts! The devices that really matter here are the Muso and the ND5XS2/MScaler/TT2 based main system in the adjoining room (the Qb is in another part of the house and rarely grouped). To get this to work I run both a DIN cable (into the amp) and a BNC cable (into the Mscalar) from the ND5XS2. When I want to change between Airplay / RAAT zones I have to switch the output from the ND5XS2 between DIN and BNC in the NAIM app, change the input channel on the amp, and adjust the volume. Works, with care, but not wonderful.
The reason for having to do it this way is that I can’t configure ‘Zone grouping delay’ for Airplay endpoints in the same way I can with RAAT ones (I need about 740ms to the Muso to account for the processing happening in the Mscaler / Hugo TT2). If this were possible then I could simply route everything through BNC / Mscaler / TT2 and would only have to use Roon to switch between Airplay and RAAT.
I don’t know if adding / enabling that is technically feasible, but if it were and could go into your product backlog that would be fantastic.
Hi @stevet,
Thank you for your understanding about the difficulties we are facing in regards to testing this sync issue. We’re glad you were able to find a workaround that works for now.
We always welcome feedback and feature suggestion in the Feature Suggestions. You can make a post there and others users will be able to vote on that suggestion. Once it gains enough votes our product team will take a look.
I am having the exact same issue with my Naim NDX2 (wired) and my Muso 2 (wireless) as of the last couple of weeks. It had been working flawlessly for multiple years. I have changed nothing about my network or Roon settings in the last 6 months.
I can also use the Naim app to play to both devices and I do not see the same drift as with RAAT.
. I am not set up to try chromecast.
