Naim Uniti Core and Roon


(Ged) #21

I don’t know how many Uniti core users there are on here. I went for a NAS and a ripper as I always thought the naim approach was too niche and way too expensive, even when I had multiple naim streamers.


(Stephen Wright) #22

@ged_hickman1

Thanks!

I’m not qualified to say much on this. I have lots of Naim kit, and the Core seemed like a good extension (in general terms, it works well). I suppose I’m surprised that Naim are using legacy or at least old, and potentially insecure, software like UPnP and SMB1. But Roon can’t exactly be unaware either that SMB status constitutes a connection issue …

Off-topic, I don’t find the Naim app to be stable (it regulalry doesn’t allow paging back to the library), so I’ve switched to BubbleUPnP to control the Naim pre-amp attached to the Naim Core. It seems to be better.

I have found out way more things than I wanted to recently.

Steve


(Stephen Wright) #23

@Rugby

Well, Roon is back to not performing again (on my system…). I managed to get the storage configured, and all the content of the relevant external hard drive (the Naim Uniti Core) logged. But then, as usual, a few hours later it all disappeared. If I try to re-establish the library, it simply says “Invalid network address”.

I tried putting the Roon Core on a different PC, but with the same result. Unfortunately, all this happened after I had bought Roon, something I shouldn’t have done until it had proved it could work, and stay working.

The SMB1 stuff is not the issue this time.

Anybody got any solutions for me? Naim say it’s a Roon problem, and Roon’s position appears to be that it’s Naim’s problem. Can Roon technical support try to sort this for me please?

Thanks.

Steve


(Janet ) #24

This thread has me utterly discouraged. I am awaiting delivery of my new Naim Uniti Core and will soon have my entire CD collection on it. I wanted to try Roon, But it sure doesn’t look easy! Would it work better with Windows 7?


(Andrew Gillis) #25

I sell a small fanless Roon server called the sonicTransporter i5. A lot of my customers are using it to “Roonify” they Naim Uniti Core. It’s completely plug-and-play. You just attach it to your router and configure Roon from a tablet or computer.


(Stephen Wright) #26

Janet: I feel for you.

The good news - I got there eventually. The bad news - it took three months of playing around and frustration. It is clear that many people don’t have the endless issues that I did, and you may be one of the lucky ones. It’s worth mentioning that Roon Technical Support mostly consists of this forum, Roon having largely outsourced the business of helping customers to other customers.

Roon essentially told me that, Windows arcane legacy issues like SMB aside (and why should a customer have to deal with that? Answers on a postcard to…), my problem was likely to rest with Naim. Naim told me - you guessed it - that my problem was likely to rest with Roon. Nice, guys. It was possible that both would next have chosen to accused Netgear.

The solution for me turned out to be that the Roon Core and the Naim Core had to be physically connected to the same wifi satellite. If the PC running Roon Core was on the same wifi network as the Naim Core, but not the same router or satellite, it worked only intermittently; hence the undiluted frustration. So, maybe Netgear is responsible after all, and there is something in the protocol that the Netgear router uses to communicate with the Netgear satellite that prevented the Roon Core from reliably accessing the Naim Core. How would I know? And why should I have to know such a thing? I just want to play the music, not understand the minutiae of networking or Windows software.

I do very much like the music sound quality that I am now getting from the system. Would I have gone down the Roon route if I had known how long and how frustrating the journey would be? Sadly, no.

Steve


(John B) #27

The Roon core will not run on the Naim core. Roon core needs to run on a computing device, be it windows PC, Mac, Linux, or specialised products such as sonic transporter than Andrew mentions above.

Naim Core is essentially to have a one stop Naim streaming platform.

Most of us using Roon will have our music on a hard drive or NAS.

.sjb


(Janet ) #28

I notice Naim has announced a partnership (or arrangement) with Roon:

“We are very pleased to announce the launch of Roon Ready at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest today, with our new Uniti all-in-one players.”

I have a sinking feeling this might not include the Naim Uniti Core. Anyone know about this?

I now have my music ripped and the Naim Uniti Core installed into my living room stereo system:
Ethernet > Naim Uniti Core > Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC >
Audiomat Prelude Reference MKII amp > Quad ESL-63 Speakers

I love the way it sounds and the ease of use, but I’ve had my eye on Roon from the beginning and I want to expand streaming to my TV stereo system which includes my new Oppo UDP-205 BluRay et al player that can be Roon Ready with a firmware update. That seems like a good reason to switch to Roon. Is there a real person to talk to at Roon to help get me started on this?


(simon arnold) #29

The core is not Roon Ready only new Uniti streamers are. The core is a upnp ripper server/player only.

You will need a different endpoint to use Roon. You could get a lower cost SBC based streamer such as Allo Digi+ or USBridge they are fantastic value for money and sound great.


(simon_pepper) #30

It is the new Streamers/Players that are Roon Ready, and can add as Roon Endpoints. But you still need a Roon Server running Roon Core.
The Uniti Core is Naim’s Server component (based on Linux over Uniti Server’s embedded Windows), but cannot run 3rd party programs and can’t behave as a Roon Core. It just outputs over UPnP for PCM formats (didn’t think it has dsf support or transcoding yet).

Anyway best way for adding Roon to existing Naim equipment, is the SonoreUPnP bridge.
It runs on their hardware (low noise environment, plus you can add a low noise PSU) or the SonicTransporter servers from Small Green Computer, if you need a server for Roon, behaves a full Roon Endpoint but outputs into the UPnP input on your Naim network player, with input switching when playback in Roon is initiated.
Works like a treat on all formats, PCM & native DSD.
Sends WAV for all PCM formats & native DSD64 for all dsf files.
No format conversion to S/PDIF & the opportunity to introduce jitter into the playback stream.

I now have the UltraRendu with UpTone UltraCap LPS as a pair (so looks good) into my NDS.
Plus MQA support in the Roon Core.


(Janet ) #31

I was so afraid the Uniti Core was left out. I am very disappointed!

I do understand that the Room Core needs a fast computer and that I have, Windows 7 Pro, i7 Core, SSD for the OS, Intel motherboard OpenGL 4.0 capable. I also have a Roon endpoint in the TV audio system, my Oppo UDP-205 would be a Roon ready endpoint with a firmware update.

So I would have to abandon my Naim app and add a Roon endpoint to my living room system? That sounds very complicated. Though I was just reading today about the microRendu. Would that work?

Or could I have two separate streaming systems, the Naim in the living room and Roon in the TV room? But I am guessing they couldn’t share the music files stored on the SSD in the Naim Uniti Core, right?


(simon arnold) #32

Microrendu is very respected endpoint. You can share the music files on the core with roon so that’s not an issue. But you really should be using Roon for both or your really wasting your money. You would just use the core for ripping and storing your music so you use Naim app for that. For playing music you use Roons and nothing else. I never touch my Naim app for the unity as I control all music playback from Roons app. So its not complicated. You need to decide on which way you want to add Roon. Keep using the Naim core as a player and add the Sonore UPNP bridge to it so it shows up on Roon as an Endpoint or purchae another Roon ready endpoint and just use the core to rip and host your music.


(Janet ) #33

Thank you both, your responses are very clear and helpful. I am such a novice to streaming, everything seems a bit complicated at this point, though now that I finally have the Naim in place and am using the app to stream, that part seems easy at least!

So it seems I would need to look into the Sonore UPnP Bridge if I want to continue to use the Naim app. I have a feeling I would prefer the Roon app, so I will probably want to find a suitable endpoint.

I think my DAC is a limiting factor as it is PCM only. Another complication. I find it daunting to choose gear as there are so many choices.


(simon_pepper) #34

So here, you are not sending a UPnP stream to your Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC, but a Digital output from the UnitiCore to a digital input.
So, suggestion, keep using the UnitiCore as your Server with the ability to rip CDs etc, apply metadata to your music library. Install Roon Core on your PC, then with a microRendu give the Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC an input over USB. This will behave a Roon endpoint for the files on the UnitiCore.
You can see how that works, and then see about a dedicated server for the Roon Core.


(simon arnold) #35

I think I need to make something clear, if your using Naims app then you are controlling the upnp and ripping features of the core only and in no way can it control Roon. So if you want to use Roon in your main Naim system you use the Roon application for music playback. Roon is essentially taking over all streaming and so upnp in the core is redundant. To use Roon requires using their own app. The sonore bridge will not change this at all. It just allows Roon to see the Naim core as an endpoint all control still will need to be via Roon App.

It might sound complicated but it won’t be. As you will only need to use the one app for music playback and this will control both your systems which currently you cant do with the Naim app.


(Janet ) #36

I need some help interpreting your comment. I have assumed I am doing the expected, sending a digital signal via coax to my DAC. It hasn’t occurred to me to put a name to that digital stream. If it’s not UPnP, what is it? Either way, I don’t understand the significance, or how it may matter to what I want to do.

As far as the rest of your suggestion, to continue to use the Naim app to rip and to attach metadata, that makes a lot of sense. My CD collection is mostly opera and classical and Naim has been pretty good about metadata, though I’ve still had a lot of editing to do; but I’ve read Roon is really weak on classical, so I suspect Naim is superior in that respect.

I would need to install the Roon Core to my PC, and add the microRendu (or similar) to the living room system to create a Roon endpoint, which, if I understand it all, should convert both my systems to Roon.

Dare I assume there’s nothing that would prevent me from continuing to use the Naim app to stream music in my main living room system as an alternate to Roon?


(Janet ) #37

I think I am beginning to get the concept now, thanks. It’s the darn acronyms that keep exposing holes in my understanding.


(simon arnold) #38

Yep it can get confusing fast. Upnp is a protocol for sending digital music to a player (endpoint) via a computer network. It itself requires a upnp server that collates your music library and can send this onto a upnp player (endpoint) by using a upnp contoller application ( Naim app). Upnp can only talk to other upnp devices on your network.

Roon is similar but uses its own network protocal called RAAT and is a lot more robust than upnp but requires devices to be Roon ready to work with it, or one of the devices they have reversed engineered to work such as Sonos, airplay, Chromecast and Squeezebox devices.

Playing music out of usb ports, digital coax or optical is not the same as at this stage it’s digital audio not network data. Your core currently converts the digital files stored on it to digital audio and spits it out to goto a digital audio inout on a DAC which you have or an amplifier that has a DAC built in.

The microrendu takes the network audio from Roon and converts it digital audio to be sent to the DAC but only if your DAC has a usb input. If your DAC doesn’t have a usb input then this is of no use. The usb bridge that Mr Pepper mentioned basically converts the the two different network protocala to talk to each other, hence why its called a bridge as its linking other wise two disparate protocols. The latter would mean you can still use the cores audio out to the DAC.


(Stephen Wright) #39

Hi all

I was the original poster here, for a discussion which went cold in March, with a flurry at the end of June but has now been resuscitated. It has therefore been going on for five months…

For what it’s worth, my Roon Core is plugged directly into a Naim pre-amp etc by S/PDIF and, throughout, that specific audio system has worked perfectly (it’s all Naim, so that isn’t surprising). As I’ve said above, the other audio system located in a different room uses the Naim Core as a music store, and then an ethernet connection from a wifi satellite into a SOtM sMS-200 streamer (equivalent to a microRendu), cabled directly by USB into a Mojo Audio DAC and from there into a headphone amplifier and pass-through to another Naim preamp etc. It was this second system which was very difficult to get working, because the the Roon Core running on a Windows 10 PC often couldn’t see the Naim Core - although they were both on the same wifi network. It turned out that there were complications in this system with a) on the W10 Roon Core, the setting for SMB 1.0/CIFS; b) also on the W10 Roon Core, the ports which Roon seems to need open and which the user has to configure manually; c) where there is a wifi system using Roon Core and Naim Core on different router/satellites, even if it’s the same network, it will either not work at all or will operate at best intermittently. What finally got my set-up working was therefore physically to plug the Roon Core W10 machine into the same wifi satellite as the Naim Core, using ethernet; simply in other words, the fact that the wifi network is fine with all other networking functionalities does not mean that Roon will work on it. I can only assume that Netgear is using some protocols for wifi communication between the router and satellites (each of which is an “Orbi”) which Roon - and only Roon - does not like. That being said, the sMS-200 is plugged into a different satellite than the Roon Core/Naim Core, and this doesn’t appear to be a problem - the Orbi devices are MESH wifi, so communication may not be between the router and the satellites but perhaps between the satellites, though who can tell.

My feeling and personal experience is that Roon set-up can be very complicated. If everything is hard-wired with ethernet, probably it will work fine, but any wifi in the installation can make it fail. Even the posters seem to be a bit uncertain on this: “It might sound complicated but it won’t be”… “Yep it can get confusing fast”. Which is it?

It also doesn’t help for the purposes of this thread to talk about “core” without specifying whether it’s the Roon Core or the Naim Core in question.

Apart from the recommendation to use ethernet if at all possible, my other take-away from the months spent frustrated with trying to get Roon to work is that maybe Windows isn’t the ideal computing platform for it, and perhaps a dedicated machine would be better. But that adds the cost of an NUC or whatever whereas I had an existing powerful PC which I could repurpose.

Also as I’ve mentioned before, I find the Naim app, to control the Naim Core, to be useable but unstable (it needs quite frequent restarting - and that is on a pure Naim audio system with no wifi or indeed networking involved, just S/PDIF cable). I might be tempted to replace the Naim app with something else so that Roon could be used to control the system, but I’d need a very great deal of reassurance that, after laying out the extra cost for yet another device, I’m not going to get the loop of intermittent working that I had for more than three months with the Roon networking issue.

Steve


(simon_pepper) #40

Absolutely nothing.

Enjoy the music