Need help with Roon setup

Are you just trialing Roon?

If so, I wouldn’t buy any new machine.

Do you have a laptop or any old PC or Mac that you could trial Roon on?

You might not find Roon suitable. Until you do, there’s no point buying a machine to run it on.

BTW - I don’t consider a NUC to be an SBC. For me, an SBC is a machine that follows an RPi form factor. Doesn’t matter, just a question of terminology. @Xekomi‘s suggestion of a NUC is appropriate, assuming you are at the stage where you know you want to subscribe to Roon.

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So much this.

that can backfire fast if OP doesn’t have a fast old pc or mac, or has one without an SSD… I’d rather suggest running the trial on the most oomphy setup in the house.

If “all my music is on a NAS, and only on that NAS”, I’d suggest buying a large enough drive, and making a copy of the music folder, rather than connecting said most oomphy setup in the house to the NAS.

Don’t like Roon ? You’ve got a backup of your music library for when your NAS craps out on you.

Like Roon ? Use that drive for your core (yes, you’ll have to copy the files over again).

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God forbid if you want to try running roon on the NAS (QNAP and Synology and maybe asustor) x86 models only and even then maybe limited to how powerful or recent they are.

Could you give me an example of me using jargon I don’t understand ?

Your assumption that all linux software runs on any architecture tells me to assume that maybe you don’t necessarily understand linux very well. You also seem to not have quite gotten your head around the Roon jargon (core / endpoint etc) by the time you posted the thread, nor to have carefully read the technical material. This is normal, and there are no stupid questions, only idiots who don’t ask questions. I apologise if I hurt your feelings by stating it, moreso if I was wrong in my assumptions. You are right on one thing, which is that there are some cases where ARM is powerful enough to run a roon core. The new apple hardware is one example, another, more common in what you’d expect from an ARM CPU, is the ELAC discovery server, which runs off an quad core ARM9. If memory serves, although it is now marketed at being able to handle an “unlimited” number of tracks, it wasn’t recommended above 3000 tracks or so.

This said, what does stand is the advice others and myself have given you: despite its simplicity for the end user, Roon is rather complex and ressource intensive on the back-end, which is unusual for a “music player”, and it is ressource intensive in ways some people don’t expect (the issue is generally the number of tracks, not the quality, and size, of each track). One of the very smart things RoonLabs did was allow end-users to clone their (expensive) servers, in relatively inexpensive ways: case aside, you can build a Nucleus+ clone for less than many people here spent on interconnects, their power supplies or fancy ethernet switches. Unless you’re interested in tinkering, and enjoy it, or happen to already have a machine lying around that can run the core properly, use that to your advantage if you feel like Roon is meant for you.

Hi Xekomi, don’t worry you haven’t offended me I just wanted to know how you arrived at that conclusion. I’ve built bought and used lots of music streamers on Raspberry Pis and other more powerful SBC’s for more years than I care to remember and have enjoyed the journey. You are right when you say I haven’t read the roon docs properly- I’m a professional software engineer and have a pretty good grasp on Linux. As a server Linux takes a lot of beating as a Desktop it is a WIP. However I digress. I’ve probably made a naive assumption that Roon was just another streaming server like Logitech Media Server which I’ve used since its first incarnation and like very much. So where do I go from here ? I don’t want a Windows box involved on the server side of things but I have an old HP Linux laptop kicking about which I could use for the Roon Core in my evaluation period of Roon - I’m sure there will be more questions from me - thanks for taking the time to try and help me.

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A lot depends on your library size and what bits of Roon you use As mentioned Roon is resource heavy on the Core PC

For sure you will need a SSD forte Roon system and library, a normal HDD will be sluggish to point of unusable

You will need a minimum 4gb RAM preferably 8

“An old laptop” may not cut. It

Few of us want a server-side windows box :stuck_out_tongue:

The first thing you want is an SSD, preferably NVMe, to host the database. The catch with Roon as compared to LMS is that you want really high IO, both throughput and iops, on the server side. Past a certain threshold, I’m unsure how much the Roon experience can be affected by the fastest SSD in class, but the Samsung Pro NVMe line seem to be a common recommendation.

No matter what you do, please don’t try to host the database on a spinning drive. The reason to this is that because the tracks are interconnected, you’ve got a very quick (not quite exponential, but still steep) rise in load the more tracks (local or remote) you add, and your 2,5" rust bucket will choke, limp, and make your experience truly miserable. I haven’t checked this with RoonLabs, but I also suspect that there’s a difference whether or not you’re subscribed to a streaming service (it’d make sense that a library of 10’000 local tracks shouldn’t interconnect as much as 30’000’000). There might also be a difference depending on the type of albums you own: 10’000 tracks of best of the decade compilations might carry a much higher metadata load than 10’000 tracks of New Kids On the Block bootlegs.

Regarding your laptop, the official guidelines in terms of processing requirements are i3-7100 up to 100’000 tracks or so, i7-7567 beyond that. They are generous, and you will get away with (much) less, but that’ll give you a ballpark of what’s expected for the best possible experience. I’m currently running about 100’000 tracks on a Xeon D-1518 docker container, and it’s perfectly useable, but a touch laggy.

As far as tryout is concerned, as long as you’ve got an SSD on that old laptop, try that and see if it works. If it doesn’t, temporarily run it off the most powerful box you have, then migrate to something more economical. ROCK (“Roon Optimised Core Kit”, or RoonOS) is supported on NUCs, but runs fine on other setups (those are called “MOCK”), albeit with no guarantee something won’t break down the line: it’s a lean and mean, closed distro meant to be as appliance-y as possible. Since you’re comfortable with DiY’ing, if you really want to cheap out, you can probably scavenge a known compatible motherboard from ebay or your local classifieds. As far as NUCs are concerned, the sweet spots right now, as far as I can tell, are “really cheap 2nd hand if you can find one”, or “NUC8”. I’m personally unconvinced the limited financial gains by going the MOCK route are worth the (small) risk of something breaking down the line, and feel like outside of edge cases (million track libraries…), the best bet for those of us who know how to build a dedicated box is to use the continued support safety net from Nucleus sales and get a NUC.

Regarding your Raspberries, the best-in-class endpoint Raspberry distro is called Ropieee, so you can do that if you’d like a more appliance-like experience than DietPi.

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Accurate and to the point

Great advice

Try before you buy but don’t get put off by sub optimal kit

Bookmarked for when a comprehensive response is required.

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Hi there sorry I didn’t reply earlier but as I’m a new user of this forum I’m limited as to the number of posts I can post - since we las spoke I’ve bought a used nuc5i5myhe , it did have ROCK installed bur it was a bit locked down for my liking so I’ve installed Debian 4.19.160-2 (2020-11-28) i686 GNU/Linux on it which is running fine but can’t seem to find an install script to install Roon Server on - any ideas as to where I can find one ? thanks for your help.

Rock might still have been your best option

Also not a great idea to multi post issues

Try the ones in the kb - hopefully, there isn’t some weird broken thing somewhere that’s going to cause problems… if it doesn’t, have a look in the Linux section of the forum. This, for example, seems like something you might run into.

Thing with ROCK is that by being an appliance, it’ll shield you from that kind of weirdness, and that’s a good thing, even if, yes, we ALL get the frustration of having a locked-down black box sitting around picking its nose when it could do more interesting stuff than feed music a few hours a day…

Take a read of this. I believe it has the download link for the easy installer for Linux.

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Hi I didn’t realise I had multi posted - it seems to me Roon is overly complicated to install and I can’t find a simple answer to my problem - I don’t wan’t suggestions like why don’t you install ROCK ! I want to install it on the OS I have running - thanks for your time though I’m just trying to like Roon and find myself fighting it at every corner - like most things once I understand it and get it running all will become clear - can anyone ( knowing my setup ) just send me a link and say just run this ?

Did you read the link I posted? Besides instructions, there are the download links for both the Easy Installer method (which is what I’d suggest) and the Manual Method.

Once you do and you have questions, I’d be happy to help.

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It’s really easy, your just making it hard through your randomised approach.

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Hi and thanks for replying but why do you say I’m making it hard through my randomised approach?

Hi Rugby and thanks for your reply but can you tell me which one of the scripts I need to use ?