No Lossless + Glitches | Tidal > Roon > Platin Stereo Hub HT (WiSA) > Buchardt A10

Roon Software Discussion
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Hey all –

I recently scored the Buchardt A10s to pair with the updated Platin Stereo Hub to go in my TV room. For the past 2.5 years in my big listening room I have enjoyed the Buchardt A700s paired with the older Platin Hub. That A700 + Platin setup has worked flawlessly and the ROON signal path shows all DSP/Room Correction/Lossless playback.

ROON Issues

The A10s have been a different story! I either get the “High Quality” output message or, if I can can get a “Lossless” path the audio feed cuts-in-and-out with a stutter affect. And none of the Buchardt Room Correction and DSP stuff appears into the Signal Path.

Device Settings for the Platin Stereo Hub HT paired to the A10s:

Version: CR443GP_3683.061

RAAT SDK version: 1.1.44

If I go to Devise Setup via ROON - I can adjust the Max sample from 48 or 96 or 192 kHz + 16 or 24 bit.

  • All music up to 48kHz is converted up to 96kHz and outputs with “High Quality” - sounds fine.
  • All music that is higher than 96kHz (like 192/24 TIDAL content) is converted down to 96 by the Platin and outputs as “High Quality” - sounds fine.
  • Hella Weird: Music that is natively 96kHz from TIDAL, like Joy Division’s Substance or Talking Heads True Stories OST, triggers the “Lossless” indicator yet plays with a cuts-in-and-out-stutter sound.

If I set the Device only to receive up to 48kHz, all signals are bottlenecked and play fine. If I set to up to 96kHz, anything not 96kHz native plays fine. If I set to up to 192kHz – anything not 96kHz plays fine.

In contrast the A700s paired with the older platin hub is working just fine:

Older Platin Stereo Hub has a different RAAT SDK build:
Version: p15262.515.0
RAAT SDK: 1.1.38

This is hella weird that I am not getting the visual reinforcement that my CD rips nor non-96kHz streams to indicate Lossless playback. And the native 96kHz shows the lossless yet plays all broken up.

Who owns the troubleshooting here? Team ROON? Team Platin? Team Buchardt?

Should the newer Platin Stereo Hub HT revert from SDK 1.1.44 down to 1.1.38? Can I force that?

cuz….. TIDAL Connect Works at 96kHz + Above!

I tested the TIDAL connect app directly to the Platin Stereo Hub HT for the sample albums that are 96kHz native in the app and they played flawlessly on the Buchardt A10s unlike piping the TIDAL feed via ROON.

Something here is off when Roon is factored in.

Anyone else have this problem? Should I score a legacy Platin Hub like my A700s?

Thanks!

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I have also re-created the new Platin Stereo HT Hub 96kHz problem with a different pair or Buchardt Speakers - the A700LE.

Until this is resolved I’ll keep the new Platin Stereo HT Hub limited to 48kHz to preclude the chance any multi-room streaming will be undesirable.

3

Sorry for the wall of text, but I’ve got a full belly and drink in hand. Not much will left to simplify and be succinct.

I’d say it’s on Platin to troubleshoot.

Old Hardware Good, New Hardware Bad

  1. Old version of Platin Stereo Hub
    1. No problems with Buchardt A700
    2. “ROON signal path shows all DSP/Room Correction/Lossless playback”
  2. New version of Platin Stereo Hub
    1. Problems with Buchardt A10, A700, A700LE
    2. “…none of the Buchardt Room Correction and DSP stuff appears into the Signal Path“

Platin’s Responsibilities as Roon Ready Partner

The following 2 sections are quoted from “Roon Labs RAAT SDK Certification Requirements”.

Report any on-device DSP processes in the Roon Signal Path.

  • The exact product behavior and strategy for the Signal Path feature should be discussed with the Roon team prior to implementation.
    • Examples include: Upsampling, EQ, Phase Invert, Balance, DSD to PCM conversion, DSP volume
  • The device should update the status of Signal Path elements in real-time, always reflecting the current status of the device.
    • For example: If the user increases the Bass EQ by 2dB, the Signal Path element in Roon should update itself with the new value instantaneously
  • The device must always report the proper “Output Method” in the Signal Path.
    • Possible output methods include “Analog Outputs”, “Headphones”, “USB”, “Digital Outputs”…

Allow for Roon Ready playback of any formats, bit depths, and sample rates the device is advertised as supporting.

  • Roon Ready playback should have parity with other networked and file based sources in regards to format support.
    • If the device supports UPnP playback of DSD256 content, it must be possible to play DSD256 via Roon Ready as well.
  • When the device communicates its supported audio formats to Roon, it should include support for all advertised supported formats, bit depths, and sample rates.
    • First example: If the device supports playback of 384kHz PCM via UPnP but downsamples to 192kHz, the device should report 384kHz support to Roon and then report the downsampling in the Signal Path.
    • Second example: If all audio is resampled on the device to 24/96kHz PCM, the device should still report support for all PCM rates up to its advertised limit and report the resampling via Signal Path.
    • Third example: If the device supports MQA playback using the built-in Tidal app, it must support MQA playback via Roon Ready.
  • Playback must be stable and dropout free in all supported formats
  • The device must be able to sustain continuous playback for 24 hours
  • The device must be capable of switching between different formats without unpleasant noise or artifacts.
  • If the device takes time to switch formats, it must work with the appropriate RAAT APIs to ensure that Roon doesn’t begin playback before the device is ready, resulting in cut-off audio.

If the new Platin Stere Hub is not doing the above, then it’s on them to address.

Platin Chose to Update RAAT SDK Versions

  • Old Platin Stereo Hub uses RAAT v1.1.38 (released 2020-04-03)
  • New Platin Stereo Hub uses RAAT v1.1.44

John Iburg (Roon’s former Partner Program Manager for 5 years) describes changes in RAAT SDK versions and from that I infer that Platin had a reason to use RAAT SDK 1.1.44 in the new Stereo Hub, but it’s up to them to explain why the change was necessary and troubleshoot if it’s not working as expected.

Comparing Apples and Oranges?

I tested the TIDAL connect app directly to the Platin Stereo Hub HT for the sample albums that are 96kHz native in the app and they played flawlessly on the Buchardt A10s unlike piping the TIDAL feed via ROON.

You’re right and this puts the spotlight on RAAT. Platin has implemented the simpler TIDAL Connect SDK correctly. They may not have done so with the more complex RAAT SDK.

TIDAL Connect

  • Platin Stereo Hub uses its own local clock
  • Platin makes direct HTTPS requests to Tidal (downloads files like a web browser)
  • Playback timing is loosely coordinated via timestamps and not sample-accurate across devices
  • Simpler but less precise timing control
  • You don’t get multi-room/multi-device synchronized playback

RAAT

  • Roon acts as master clock authority
  • Persistent connection between Roon and Platin
  • Platin Stereo Hub should buffer ahead and adjust playback rate dynamically
  • Much tighter control over playback and low network jitter
  • You get drift correction and synchronized playback across devices

Stuttering Audio? Keep an Eye On Roon Support

Because you’ve seen how @poul_bengtson is tackling what looks like the same problems from the Roon side.

FYI, RAAT’s drift correction algorithm hasn’t changed since 2017 with version 1.1.14 (caveat emptor we can’t see code changes after 2020).

1 Like
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Wow, thanks für the link. Interesting for many reasons, but in particular because it requires things that not every RR device fulfills.

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I thought it was the other way round. The device is the master clock. Roon is quite explicit on this:

I must say I am quite dismayed at these reports. I have just taken delivery of the Platin HT Stereo Hub, but have not had a chance to test it yet as I am not at the location it will be used. I have owned the old-style Stereo HUB for many years. It only has a wifi interface, so that may be why my experience was that it was always rather unstable at 96khz. In addition, there has always been a rather confusing signal path. Roon reports everything being downsampled to 48khz but in correspondence with Platin they insist that’s not what is happening. I have never got to the bottom of it and eventually just gave up. So I intended to replace the old Hub with the HT version, which does have an RJ45 interface, and I was hoping to get better stability at 96khz that way. But TBH, there is history here, and it looks like the certification handshake between Roon/Platin is not really working. It took a very long time for the original Stereo Hub to be certified; it never really worked as advertised. Seems to be a lot of finger-pointing going on.

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Two inputs:

a)

From the Platin support group on Facebook.

‘Hi, anyone else have problems with Roon 96/24? It is breaking up, other formats are ok. If I downsample the 96kHz to 44,1 it also works.’

‘Platin Audio Life

We are aware of this issue - and it is also reproduced in our lab. We are working with the streaming chipset supplier to find … ‘

b) the new hub has no relationship anymore with Buchardt, hence no Buchardt mentions anymore in the signal path.

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I thought it was the other way round. The device is the master clock.

You’re correct. I poorly described how Roon was responsible for adjusting the delivery of the music data based on the drift info it received from the Platin. Conflated the use of clock to measure different things.

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Is there any indication that would be a firmware fix? I haven’t unboxed the HT and I am based in Denmark so I am inclined to send it back. How does something basic like that slip through roon ready testing?

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Yes, I do expect a firmware update, if they succeed in solving it.

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Hello everyone and thank you for all the responses and input.

While we wait for the Firmware update from Platin for the new Stereo Hub HT – I decided to score some new-old-stock of the original Platin Stereo Hub from an online store called Vintage King:

It’s the same Platin WiSA hub that’s branded for the Mesanovic. It won’t hurt to have a backup in case one of my units totally craps out.

It would quite the gag if I’m ultimately gonna wind up with a Primare Prisma. It’s total overkill for my needs. Like filling up a bath tub to wash my hands.

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@tripleCrotchet you may have seen the good news already…

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Ah. I didn’t see that. System Audio are a Platin reseller but I assume Platin has made the firmware generally available?

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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@poul_bengtson –

Hey Poul - That’s great news you have a Firmware Update. I wonder if it’s a beta-firmware they have not distributed widely yet.

Did you receive this as a ZIP package over Email and you installed it over USB?
Did Platin and System-Audio link to your unit and updated it directly over the internet?

Can you share the Firmware update package with us here?

My Firmware is: CR443GP_3683.061.2

What’s your new Firmware Build ID?

Platin-Hub-Firmare-with-96kHz-Glitch
Platin-Hub-Firmare-with-96kHz-Glitch2110×1958 297 KB

My Platin Stereo Hub HT is still glitching with 96kHz-native content and is not showing Lossless for non-96kHz signals converted to 96kHz.

Cheers!

1 Like
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Hi Scott,

A few months ago I experienced the same problem that you are suffering with a Buchard Audio A10 and a Platin Stereo Hub HT, in addition to many other technical inconsistencies. Unfortunately I did not find any kind of solution, not even contacting the friendly support service of Platin Audio.

Later I replaced the A10 with some A700LE, and the problems continued to persist.

Faced with such frustration I decided to replace the Platin Hub with the Primare SC15MKII, and a whole new world opened before my ears… :hugs: The sound quality improved drastically, and everything now works wonderfully.

Without a doubt the best decision and incorporation I have made in my system, now complemented with 2 SUB10, and the Primare handles everything with absolute ease and precision.

My recommendation obviously… value the Primare :face_with_peeking_eye:

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Thanks for the recommendation, Javier.

A700LE
I might splurge and get the Primare Prisma for my music-only space with the A700le speakers. I suppose I still think the primare is overkill. Because my understanding is that the Primare DAC isn’t really leveraged for the WiSA transmission and stuff. The Buchardts and the Master Tunings is the real-world functional DAC when using WiSA. The WiSA digital signal coming from the OG-Platin-Hub is effectively equal to the Primare WiSA signal.

Unless I’m way off about something?

A10s + New-Old-Stock OG-Platin-Hub FTW

The A10s are in our TV space and we need the HDMI connection for non-Roon stuff.

Today I rec’d my add’l Original-Platin-Hub from VintageKing to supplant the Updated-Platin-Hub in this TV Space.

The OG-Platin-Hub is working as advertised for the Lossless/Enhanced music path, RoomEQ with the ZEN micophone, handling all kHz signals stuff correctly, and CEC-HDMI switching/control. My mind is at ease!

OG-Platin-Hub-96kHz-Audio-Works-Now
OG-Platin-Hub-96kHz-Audio-Works-Now1920×2101 238 KB

Updated-Platin-Hub is Shelved for Now

That Updated-Platin-Hub is still in a spot of bother. I hope this firmware update Poul mentioned is the real deal for anyone going forward with the Buchardts + WiSA. These devices should be working for all of us Prosumer-Audiophiles.

If I end up with some back-up Platins - so be it. I can’t rule out my darlin’ wife and I are going to add more wireless stuff for a future listening space. And, oomph, if I get some weird power issue.

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Indeed, if you need the HDMI input, the Platin Hub is crucial, although in the HT Stereo Hub you must keep in mind that the HDMI eARC input is not compatible with TrueHD, DTS X, DTS-HD, DTS or Dolby Digital formats, you can only resend the TV sound in PCM 2 channel format, although the truth is that in this aspect the Platin Hub excels.

And regarding the difference between the Platin Hub and the Primare, this not only lies in its DAC, the implementation of the power supply is fundamental, as well as at the software level, although they use the same wireless communication protocol they are not developed at the same level, and decidedly the difference in sound is remarkable.

I understand your point of view that a priori it may seem exaggerated or disproportionate, but I assure you that if you want to extract the greatest possible potential from your A700LE, this would be a step you would not regret.

I hope they can provide you with the necessary firmware update, the Platin Audio support service was very kind to me in the past, good luck Scott!!!

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Hey Scott

My Firmware Version: CR443GP_3863.061.2, and it was updated directly over the internet.

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That’s interesting that we have the Same Firmware yet my Stereo Hub HT glitches out.

Can you share a Service Ticket ID from Platin Audio I can reference or a POC from Platin Audio I can contact about getting this fixed?

I’m stoked your hub is working!

Thanks!

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Hey Scott — glad to share what I have. Quick clarification first, and then a few thoughts on why your hub might still be glitching even though we appear to be on the same firmware.

The support side

I went through System Audio (SA) Denmark, not Platin Audio. I bought the hub bundled with a pair of SA Silverback 6 speakers, so SA was effectively my dealer for the whole package — which is probably why they were willing to dig into my Roon diagnostic report and build a custom firmware for me.

Underneath, the SA Stereo Hub HT and the Platin Stereo Hub HT are the same hardware (both built by Hansong) — in fact, in Roon’s own logs my hub identifies itself as a Platin Stereo Hub HT. So hardware-wise we’re on identical platforms.

My SA support reference is #2143, and the firmware build they sent me is CR443GP_3863.061.2. Feel free to cite either if it helps.

Why you might still be glitching

A few thoughts on what could be different in your case:

  1. Worth double-checking the firmware string. The previous public version was CR443GP_3683 and my new build is CR443GP_3863 — the middle digits are easy to mis-read (68 vs 86).

  2. Speaker pairing matters. Roon’s diagnostics on my ticket showed the root cause was a clock-drift problem between the hub and the speakers over WiSA at 96kHz — the drift figure was orders of magnitude beyond spec. The firmware fix presumably retunes that clock sync, but it may have been tuned specifically against SA’s own Silverback speakers. Your Buchardt A10s could behave differently on the WiSA side, so the same firmware build might not fully resolve drift in your pairing.

  3. You mentioned your A700 + older Platin combo worked flawlessly, and the issue only appears with the new A10s. That points pretty strongly at something in the A10/new-hub interaction specifically — worth checking whether the A10s themselves are on the latest firmware via Buchardt’s app, in case there’s a matching update needed on the speaker side.

If your hub came through Platin, I wouldn’t necessarily expect SA to step in for a non-customer — they’re a relatively small Danish manufacturer, and going out of their way for someone else’s customer is a lot to ask. But you can absolutely reference firmware CR443GP_3863.061.2 and ticket #2143 when pushing Platin (or Buchardt) support — it gives them something concrete to take back to Hansong, and it shows the underlying platform can be fixed.

Hope you get it sorted!