Non-requested rescanning

Hi,

Apologies for bothering you, but I have a problem that I can’t figure out and I don’t see anything about it in Roon’s documentation. And to be clear, I love Roon! It’s an astoundingly fascinating product, and all the comments about finding new things in one’s recording library are absolutely true.

My set-up. I’m using a Cocktail x45 to rip and store the resultant files, and a MacBook Pro for Roon. I understand that I’l need a computer that’s better suited for Roon in the future, but it’s been working fine. I have 1,396 CDs stored currently, and roughly another 6,000 to go – the vast majority of which are classical.

So. Everything was going well: I would rip a CD and it would be swiftly added to Roon. I’d lightly edit the metadata for some, usually within the time it would take for the next CD to rip, and I had a good rhythm going.

Then I followed the suggestion to backup Roon. I attached a usb hard drive and followed the instructions for backing up. The process went well, and the next day I started to rip CDs again. But this time, Roon now rescans the database every time it detects a new file. It doesn’t go all the way back to the beginning: it starts at 942 files, and adds the files back quite swiftly, but it still takes several hours to get back to the full number of files.

I assume that something I did during the backup process has, in some way, altered the instructions Roon has for scanning for files, but I can’t figure out what. I wondered if Roon might be looking for something on the hard drive, but I connected the hard drive back up while ripping a new CD and the same process began; Roon lost track of a number of files, started scanning again at 942 files, and built up to the expected number of 1,396.

On the one hand, this isn’t the worst thing in the world: I’m not using Roon to listen to any files at the moment, I can continue to rip CDs while Roon is re-scanning, and the new files are added to the total once Roon has re-scanned everything. But on the other hand, this isn’t an ideal process, and as the number of files continues to grow, the length of time Roon takes to re-scan everything will continue to grow.

I’m hoping that this is an obvious and easily fixable problem. And I’m very happy to assume that I’m the culprit who has done something stupid. But if anyone can suggest a solution, I’d be very appreciative.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Ian

Hi @Ian_Gallacher — Thanks for reaching out!

So we can better assist you, please describe your network configuration/topology, including any networking hardware currently in use, so we can have a clear understanding of how your devices are communicating.

Next, I’d like to enable some diagnostics on your account so the team can take a closer look at what you’re experiencing. The next time that this behavior occurs (the rescanning starts) please make a note of the time it starts happening. Respond here with that timestamp, along with your timezone, and we will enable diagnostics on your account.

Thanks!

Hi Dylan,

Thanks for replying. I don’t feel so alone!

Not sure what you mean about network topology, but I’ll do my best to answer your question. Roon is on a MacBook Pro. It communicates to the Cocktail X 45 through a wireless network, with a Netgear N600 cable modem router. The Cocktail is attached to the router with an ethernet cable. According to Speedtest, the current speeds (as I write this email) are 136 mbps download, and 22.7 mbps upload. That’s all the hardware that’s involved.

I opened Roon at 2:24 pm, est. It originally showed 1,414 cds, but the number changed to 1,407 and then 1,406 as the scanning circle continued to spin. The numbers continued to change, even though I haven’t added a CD to be ripped. At 2:40 the scaling circle stopped and the final count is 1,405 CDs, although every time I check the number changes – it’s been 1,407 and 1,406 as well as 1,405 since the circle stopped spinning, even though I don’t see a difference in the cds displayed. As far as I can tell from a quick look, the 1,405 number seems to be correct. I checked the “Settings/Storage” setting, and the \x45\MusicDB file (which is where the files are stored) shows that it’s connected and that it’s watching for new files in real time.

I ripped a couple of CDs and everything was fine and stable: the CDs were added to the number of files and there was no re-scanning. Then, at about 3:40 est, the problem started up again. Roon lost files about ten at a time, until there was only 1 album – the one I’d just added – listed in the database. This time it’s worse, though, because Roon isn’t adding the old files back, so I’m stuck in a situation where I had 1,407 albums about ten minutes ago and 1 album now.

Help!!

Ian

Hi @Ian_Gallacher,

Now that I have the timestamps, diagnostics have been enabled on your account. The next time your Core is active a diagnostics report will automatically be generated and uploaded directly to our servers

Once that’s been received, I’ll be sure to update this thread and pass the diagnostics over to the team for further analysis.

Thanks Dylan. I think the Core has been active most of the day – it finally rebuilt the database (or whatever I should call it) at around 11:07 pm. I’ll shut things down now and will probably try to add more CDs tomorrow afternoon and I hope that will give you the information you need.

Thanks again for all you help.

Ian

Hi Dylan,

I had hopes that things had stabilized, but this evening things started up again: Roon lost about 500 cds, and then re-scanned until they were all found again. Any thoughts?

Ian

Hi @Ian_Gallacher,

I wanted to reach out because I’ve been keeping an eye on our servers, waiting for the aforementioned diagnostics report.

For some reason it is not reaching our servers, even after I tried re-enabling diagnostics on your account. I also ran a quick test and I was able to submit a similar report from my setup here, so something else is going on.

So we can move forward, I was hoping for now you could use the directions found here and send us over a set of logs using a shared Dropbox link. We will need logs from your Core machine.

Additionally, can you share screenshots of a recent album that you added via Finder so we can see how things are organized in your storage location?

Hi Dylan,

This has been a challenge at every turn! I had no idea how to take any of the steps necessary to get this link to ou, so it’s been quite the learning curve. I hope I succeeded in getting you the information you need. The screenshot of the album, however, has eluded me. I assume you don’t mean a screenshot of the album cover (I was able to do that easily!) but I don’t know what specifically you want a picture of.

I suspect that the culprit in all of this is one of two things: me (because I’m an idiot when it comes to technology), or my computer, which is overmatched, I think, by the demands I’m putting on it. I am planning on getting a new computer devoted to Roon in the near future, and it might be that I need to do that sooner rather than later.

Anyway. Here’s the link as I’ve been able to create it. I really hope it helps!

Ian

Hi @Ian_Gallacher,

Thanks for sending that over! I’ve passed it along to the team so they can take a look.

So we can better understand how things are organized in the file location, I was hoping you could share a screenshot of that album in Finder. I’m using a Windows machine, so I’m using File Explorer for this, but the concept is similar:

A screenshot like this will allow us to better understand the organization of your files and how it may impact the behavior you’re experiencing.

We were also hoping that, while the team is looking at the logs that you’ve provided, that you could try connecting your Core machine to the network via Ethernet instead of WiFi. Is there any change in behavior when you do so?

Thanks!

Hi Dylan,

Well, this is my best shot at a screenshot for a file. It’s the most recent cd I added, but not one that’s as impressive as the Kleiber Beethoven you sent me. I saw him in concert only once, and it was mind-blowing.

I’ll work on the ethernet connection, but I can’t do that this evening.

Thanks again for all your help.

Ian

Hi @Ian_Gallacher,

Have you had a chance to try this out and see if there is any improvement when doing so?

I spoke with the team today about your report here and wanted to reach out.

The team has tested this device in-house to see if we could reproduce similar behavior to what you’re reporting above. During this testing, the technical team did find similar behavior occurring. This all points to issues with this device’s SMB implementation, which Roon depends on for a stable connection to storage devices. Unfortunately, you’ll need to discuss this with Cocktail since this is not something we test or verify as part of the Roon Ready certification process.

Generally, using USB storage will result in more reliable behavior and improved performance, so it may be a good idea to investigate the possibility of using this type of storage in your setup.

Thank you for your patience as we’ve looked into this, Ian. We genuinely appreciate it!

Hi Dylan,

Thanks for the message. I haven’t yet had a chance to test out the ethernet idea, but I’m sure that will make things steadier. I think also that my computer is reaching the limits of its capacity to act as Roon’s host (or whatever the correct terminology is). I’ll get another computer at some point soon, and then I’ll have to figure out how to transfer Roon to it: I know I’ve seen instructions of how to do that, but if there’s a way to screw it up, I’ll find it!

I don’t understand what you mean by “SMB implementation,” but I understand that it’s a Cocktail issue rather than a Roon one. And it is encouraging to know that the problem is reproducible. That suggests that it’s not entirely something I’ve done.

You speak of USB storage as a possible solution, but I don’t understand this so forgive me for asking yet another basic question. At the moment, the Cocktail acts as a ripper and a storage device: it has an 8 terabyte hard drive in there. It connects to the network via ethernet, and Roon finds it using a wireless connection. My plan is to get a more stable computer, connect it through ethernet to the network, and connect it to the Cocktail that way. Should I now consider getting a USB hard drive, backing up the Cocktail to it, and then connecting the computer to the hard drive using a USB connection? I imagine I can do that, but I’d rather just do one of these options if possible.

Just so you know, things were relatively stable for a few days, but yesterday it started losing files and rescanning them again. This morning, it dropped from nearly 1,900 cds to about 200 and is now adding the missing 1,700 back again. It does it very quickly, but it’s frustrating!

Thanks again for your help, and I promise this’ll be my last request for help for a while. You’ve been very helpful and it’s incredibly good to know that I’m not completely alone when dealing with something that’s as sophisticated and complicated (although wonderful) as Roon.

Ian

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