Nucleus+ Multichannel DSD with Denon or Marantz AVR

Playing via roon DSD or FLAC multichannel with my Oppo 205 it is downmixed to only 2 channels. And DSD (multichannel and stereo) ist converting to PCM.
When I play without roon all files are okay, but the playback-software from oppo is not really good.
What happen, when I connect the Oppo 205 with analog multichannel-output to an AVR and use roon? Therfore the ESS9038pro ist a very good DAC.

How are these connected? If by USB, that’s what you get. HDMI will permit multichannel and/or DSD.

Agreed.

Depending on the AVR, you should be able to get multichannel just fine.

This question will asked again an again.
The answer will not changed, but always NO!
The problem is not the AVR, but the HDMI implementation in the PCs. There isn’t any driver, that can support for HDMI (stereo or multichannel) DSD.
The only solution (if you want to use DoP or native DSD) is to use USB.
There are also some multichannel dacs, which are working with Windows or Linux, but then you must have an analouge multichannel input for use this output.
My opinion is: Use PCM (if you’re using a DSP on your AVR all DSD will transcoded to PCM) or a SACD Player…

no!
Using the Oppo as Roon endpoint will support only two channels.
You must use the Oppo as DLNA client or read files from s local HDD, then you can get really multichannel, but not with Roon.

Read my statement in context. It followed the one where I said:

So, if the OP sends MCH/DSD to the Oppo via HDMI, there will be analog multichannel output from it to the AVR. As for DLNA and local USB drive, yes, they too will work but, as you say, not with Roon.

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Short answer: no
Longer answer: Please see my post from last year: Multichannel DSD over Nucleus HDMI, especially the first paragraph.

The only update is that per @mitr’s review in Stereophile, the Trinnov does not support DSD.

I don’t know if Bryston put any special hardware to support DSD over HDMI in the BDP-3 or not. I tend to think not is the more likely answer. It would be wonderful (but admittedly niche, and hard to make a priority) if Roon Labs would step up and either make a deal with Bryston and add multichannel support, or write their own HDMI DSD-capable Linux audio driver from scratch.

Good luck!

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OK but in answer to what?

The OP’s question about multichannel DSD over HDMI…

Right. Done.

My AVR died two hours ago and am now looking to get another one (likely Marantz) soonest, but I want it to play nice with Roon and/or my Oppo UDP-205 endpoint. Let me see if I got this correct, as it is rather confusing:

Mch DSD/DSF files via HDMI (no PCM conversion):
Nucleus+ to AVR = NO
Nucleus+ to UDP-205 to AVR = NO

Mch DSD/DSF files via HDMI (PCM DoP):
Nucleus+ to AVR = YES
Nucleus+ to UDP-205 to AVR = YES

If this isn’t correct, please tell me what I got wrong.

If this is correct, how do I get my DSD/DSF files to a Marantz AVR? Is just a physical SACD via HDMI (or 7.1 analog in if the AVR has it) the only option?

Thanks, everyone!

The NUC/Nucleus HDMI to AVR or to the OPPO would be PCM or DSD Converted to PCM only. I could not get the DoP to work. The receiving components has to understand DoP and my Denon receiver and OPPO 205 did not work. Maybe newer AVRs would.

DSD to PCM conversion takes a lot of processing power.

I gave up on all that and got a MC DSD capable DAC. Roon plays DSD to the Roon Ready DAC without any issues. Not an inexpensive alternative but it works great. Rip the SACD’s or purchase DSD MC downloads.

The MC DAC connects to the AVR with the 7.1 analog connections same as the OPPO does.

Thanks for your reply, Mike. I remember reading about your dream multichannel DAC. :slight_smile:
I will need to wait until my Oppo dies to justify getting a new DAC, but I am taking this chance to perhaps upgrade my AVR and should start a new thread on that.

Think about, if you really need multichannel DSD transfer native to your AVR.
If you’re using a DSP (for example for bassmanagement) in your AVR, then here all DSD content will reencoded to PCM and so it will be easier to send PCM to the AVR.
I don’t see, that reencoding from DSD64 to PCM needs a lot of power (other case is PCM → DSD512).

Thanks, Burkhardt!

So let me add to what I had above:

Mch DSD/DSF files via HDMI (converted to PCM in Roon):
Nucleus+ to AVR = YES
Nucleus+ to UDP-205 to AVR = YES

Is this accurate?

Yes, That appears to be accurate.

Mike, before you got the exaSound S88, were you able to get DSD multichannel files from your Nucleus to your AVR via the analog outs on the Oppo? I ask because the lowest tier Marantz with multichannel analog inputs is $500 more than the highest tier without them (SR7013 vs SR1505). If it doesn’t really work, then the multichannel Oppo/Nucleus/DSD journey is basically a nonstarter and would really only be applicable with physical SACDs.

No I could not get DSD Multi-channel from the NUC to the OPPO. Only MC was via HDMI but PCM only. I could play DSD from NUC to OPPO via USB but that was 2 CH only and required the 7.1 analog connections.

The OPPO playing SACD’s sounds much better, to me, using the 7.1 analog connections, because the OPPO DAC is doing the D/A processing.

With the OPPO playing SACD’s via HDMI to the receiver the receiver dac is doing the D/A processing.

The OPPO will only use it’s high end D/A processor with the 7.1 analog connections.

Whatever AVR you get will need the 7.1 inputs to make use of the OPPO DAC, and the 7.1 inputs will also be required if you plan to go with a MC dac in the future.

FWIW, I could get multichannel DSD from my server to my OPPO and out via HDMI (or analog) to my Marantz prepro in DSD but only via LAN (from the server) and not with Roon.

@TuliaNonTroppo – the way this has worked for me is via JRiver (running on Win10 laptop; also worked on Mac, but it was flaky) → DLNA → Oppo (also to a SONY SACD player) → HDMI → Marantz prepro. The prepro then indicated it was receiving DSD (I think it had to be in pure direct). Connecting the Oppo to the Marantz analog 7.1 CH IN also worked.

But I didn’t pursue this because I didn’t want to deal with running both Roon and JRiver (and I much preferred Roon).

My experience with NUC + ROCK → HDMI → Marantz has been the same as what others indicate: Roon converts DSD to PCM.

If you run your Roon Core on a computer that can also run JRiver stably, you could consider running both off of the same music files, and then you could play your DSD files in pure DSD via JRiver or in PCM via Roon, as the mood took you. (With the various consequences of not having all your music listening occurring in Roon, of course).

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For the MC DSD DAC feeding an AVR : the AVR would digitise analogue inputs (likely to PCM48kHz) to be able to do digital vol control right?

Which MC DSD DAC and which AVR are you using?