Nucleus Titan unable to detect audio devices and crashes repeatedly (ref#TM7HMP)

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1

What’s happening?

· I am experiencing freezes or crashes

Describe the issue

My Nucleus Titan starts, says it can't see any audio devices, then crashes...over and over again.

I've power cycled everything on the network, including all switches. The Titan is wired directly into the main switch, which then feeds directly into the router. There are no IP conflicts.

I've even tried switching network solutions (eero to Plume) without any luck.

mDNS listings show all devices present and on proper IP addresses.

Describe your network setup

Tried both eero Max 7 (2 wired, one wireless) and Plume (three wired, two wireless). All switches are Ubiquiti Unifi switches.

2

Right now, I’m trying to restore my last successful daily backup, which was from 28 November. Given the server keeps crashing, that may not work, and I’ll have to fully reset and restore (the first restore attempt failed as it crashed almost immediately, I’m now 1% into the 2nd, which is further than it got the first time; alas, it crashed 2% this time…).

If that doesn’t work, I’ll try moving the server from the Titan to a mac mini to see if that works…

OK, Now I’ve fully reset and am restoring. This time, the earliest backup visible was from the 25th, and not the 28th – not sure why that would be. But I’m restoring the one from the 25th, and it’s up to 20%, so that’s good.

Well, sort of “good”. It fully restored. But it hasn’t been able to start fully, because it keeps crashing after a few minutes. I guess plan B is what I have to do now, and install the server on the mini.

And, the version on the mini is crashing too. I’ve disabled all storage to try to see if that’s it, but even with all storage disabled it still crashes after a few seconds to a minute or two. And everything is fast enough that it’s quite hard to do anything to ‘fix’ it.

Interestingly, it keeps saying that the “new version requires a database update” every few reboots.

Last bit of info. I’ve now tried resetting the database on the Titan, powered off all “native” Roon devices, and logging in with just Tidal, and it is still crashing. At this point I don’t know what’s going on.

Final update; I restored the database from the version before this one. That restored, could see audio devices, and ran for 10 minutes before failing. Interestingly, I received this in the progress area:

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Frustrating…could this all be on your end?

I’ve archived up a series of crash logs on the Mac (can’t do that on Titan), and have them for you, since I don’t seem to be able to attach the files here.

Final final update. I left it crashing and starting and crashing and starting on the Titan. An hour ago, it started up and stayed running.

Even though it’s currently running, I don’t consider this closed. Something absolutely crazy was going on, and I hope the crash logs and whatever other logging you’re getting internally might help you determine what was happening.

3

Hey @David_Nanian,

Thanks for taking the time to write in and share your report!

Feel free to share the Mac system crash logs here to our File Uploader.

We were able to review a fresh diagnostic report from your Nucleus, but don’t see any obvious errors in relation to the issues you’ve described. We’ll correlate them further with the Mac crashes you sent over to see if we can gather more information for you.

In the meantime, let us know how things perform. :raised_hands:

4

I’ve uploaded the logs as requested.

Roon, on the Titan, has been running for 1 day, 1 hour, 17 minutes, 37 seconds.

I am absolutely baffled about what happened. I don’t quite understand why the Titan wouldn’t have saved crash logs, given it was crashing all the time…?

5

Note, too: the OS is running for 1 day, 5 hours, 1 minute, 37 seconds. I don’t remember when I last rebooted it, but just that last phase was at least four hours of crashing, resetting, restoring, crashing…

6

Hey @David_Nanian,

Thanks for sending those over! We’ve included the crash reports with the development ticket we have. Additional investigation is needed, so I’ll be back in touch with more information once this occurs.

I hope things remain smooth for you in the meantime! :raised_hands:

9

Hey @David_Nanian,

As a next step in testing, what happens if you setup a fresh database, and only import a small subsection of you library, say 100 tracks, does the issue still occur? Steps to follow below:

  • Create a Backup of your current Roon Database
  • Stop RoonServer from running in Nucleus’s WebUI
  • Navigate to your Nucleus’ Database Location
  • Find the folder that says “RoonServer”
  • Rename the “RoonServer” folder to “RoonServer_old”
  • Restart the RoonServer in the WebUI to generate a new Database
  • On the Roon Remotes, press “Use another Roon Server” and connect to the new database
10

But, it’s already OK, after I restored and left it crashing, as I said. Once it stopped crashing, it came up and it’s been up until today, when I switched networking, and it’s been up since then. Before switching the networking, it was up for 5 days.

The question was, why was it crashing? You have, probably, 10 crash logs…

11

Hey @David_Nanian,

Thanks for the update - our team was investigating potential RAM-related issues on the device (which was why we requested testing a smaller library size) but if you’ve been stable since your last post with your full library, we can disregard this request.

Development doesn’t have any additional information to share from the crash logs, unfortunately.

12

The mini had lots of free RAM, so I don’t think it’s RAM-related. And the amount of memory didn’t change between when it was crashing and when it started working…so that’d be quite weird.

I’m a bit surprised all those crash logs don’t point to some sort of potential cause.

13

This topic was automatically closed 36 hours after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.

15

What’s happening?

· I am experiencing freezes or crashes

How can we help?

· I am experiencing freezes or crashes

Other options

· Other

Describe the issue

As I reported in case #TM7HMP, my Titan is once again unable to see any audio devices, and Roon crashed a few minutes ago.

Describe your network setup

As in the other case

16

Note that, as before, it is continuing to crash every few minutes.

17

Hi @David_Nanian ,

I’ve merged your new post into the existing one to keep all the info in one place. Our current theory is that the Nucleus has insufficient resources to run a library of your size. To test this theory, can we please ask that you try to use your Titan with a smaller library temporarily to see if the behavior continues? There are a few ways to achieve this, the simplest being to temporarily start a fresh RoonServer instance and import only a few albums:

  • Create a Backup of your current Roon Database
  • Stop RoonServer from running in Nucleus’s WebUI
  • Navigate to your Nucleus’ Database Location
  • Find the folder that says “RoonServer”
  • Rename the “RoonServer” folder to “RoonServer_old”
  • Restart the RoonServer in the WebUI to generate a new Database
  • On the Roon Remotes, press “Use another Roon Server” and connect to the new database
  • Import a small subset of albums (less than 50k) and see if the behavior reproduces
  • When testing is complete, you can reverse the actions to use the previous database
18

But here’s the thing. If you look at my previous case, and the things I did before you replied, you’ll see that I “tried resetting the database on the Titan, powered off all “native” Roon devices, and logging in with just Tidal, and it is still crashing”.

On top of that, the Mac mini I tried it on, from which I provided multiple crash logs, was never resource constrained.

19

I’ve also just brought things up again on the Mac mini so I could observe the memory behavior. The process never gets above 6GB, and it’s crashing at least once a minute. I have another pile of crash logs.

I only have 15K albums. I mean, I know that’s a lot but I’m sure it’s nothing close to your largest library, and I can see it isn’t memory constrained. This feels more like “a bug”, and I’m just kind of shocked that the crash logs aren’t pointing to the underlying problem.

20

Is there also a hint where it says, on the Titan, that “No audio devices [are] found”, when at the very least, there are outputs on the Titan itself that could be “found”. It’s like something else is failing here, and perhaps that’s the underlying issue?

Note that that happens well before tracks are scanned, so it’d be weird if that was “memory related due to [my] library size”.

21

Here’s what I’ve done:

  • Deleted the Roon folder, clearing the database
  • Disabled all local Libraries
  • Started Roon

It still crashes within a minute or so.

23

Hey @David_Nanian,

Thank you for all the additional information and troubleshooting performed so far. Our development team is investigating your case further, and are curious -

Based on a recent diagnostic scan, it doesn’t appear that the database was truly refreshed, could you please follow the steps Noris listed earlier:

  • Create a Backup of your current Roon Database
  • Stop RoonServer from running in Nucleus’s WebUI
  • Navigate to your Nucleus’ Database Location
  • Find the folder that says “RoonServer”
  • Rename the “RoonServer” folder to “RoonServer_old”
  • Restart the RoonServer in the WebUI to generate a new Database
  • On the Roon Remotes, press “Use another Roon Server” and connect to the new database

This will ensure the proper steps are taken for our team to review further. Thanks for your cooperation! :raised_hands: