Nucleus+ with added memory couldn't handle my library but IMAC can... why?

Had a a Nucleus+ with maxed out memory.
Had constant performance issues.
Would take up to 3 mins for music to begin playing, navigation within the controllers was very slow

After working with ROON support I was told it was my library. It’s content and structure was beyond Nucleus+ capabilities.

So I sold the Nucleus and the tried my 2015 IMAC as a core and everything fine

Any ideas as why an old IMAC can outperform the "Vaunted ’ Nucleus+?

Thank you

How many tracks is that and what is the structure?

I have approx 143,000 FLAC files on my NAS
They are comprised of music of 8 artists with the bulk of the files (75%) being of 2 bands.

The way I have them organized in my NAS is:

MUSIC FOLDER>8 Artist folders>each artists folder then has folders for each year (so for Dead and Phish there are approx 30 folders within the main band folder)>within each year are the folders for each concert>within in some concert folders are up to 3 folders from different sources.I would think this a pretty logical organization that most would follow

Im still getting over spending over $2000 for a piece of equipment that was pushed as being able to handle any library (ill admit like most I dont often read the fine print>willing to admit I missed some in the glossy advertisements for the Nucleus).

Maybe the IMAC just has more power??? or does IOS look at folders/data differently than the Nucleus OS (is it Linux?)

Thanks for any info

Right, I remember that case. I have no explanation. 143,000 tracks should be a breeze for the Nucleus+ as such, but I recall that the organization stuff with the lots of subfolders in a folder was said to be an issue for Roon’s database. Which seemed conceivable to me.

With the difference now being the Mac Mini, the following possibilities come to mind:

  • Somehow the Mac’s filesystem copes better with this folder structure than Linux’s ext4. However, I see no evidence for this generally, ext4 is a very good industrial-strength filesystem.
  • There is an issue with how Roon OS / the database utilizes the file system on Linux, which doesn’t occur on the Mac for some reason.
  • Something that caused an issue with the database got removed as a by-product of moving the database from Nucleus to Mac Mini.

Not being a MAC guy, I thought the IMacs used a true desktop CPU and not a laptop/mobile CPU. If so, then that is probably the reason.

Thank you
It’s pretty bizarre
Unfortunately it took ROON support approx 3 yrs to figure it out.
I’d forgotten how ROON was supposed to work.
I still believe ROON should have refunded me for the Nucleus but they contend it works just as it should.
They blame my library.
I think they should be clear in their advertising that the Nucleus can’t handle every library. I hope they will do this in the future
Many ROON users are really surprised to hear about this
Anyway thank you for your ideas

They do, but the pure CPU speed difference is not so huge that Roon would barely work at all with this database on a Nucleus+ and be totally breezy on a 2015 iMac. There must be more to it than just that.

When I sold the Nucleus I half expected to hear back the the buyer discovered that it didnt work or had problems but it’s fine with what they use it for.
Yes I do have a bitter taste in my mouth re: the whole experience. I dont feel I was well served by ROON support or ROON the company.
BUT mainly Im grateful that I can use ROON on my IMAC and everything now works as it should.
As we all Know is ROON is unmatched for what it does with Music management.
It’s likely an “apples To Oranges” comparison but thought I’d mention the APP that comes with my Silent Angel Streamer also has no issues with my library.
Alls well that ends well i guess. Life to short to be hung up on bad vibes

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Yeah, it’s great that your unfortunate saga found a happy end, whatever the underlying technical reason was (though that would be interesting to find out). Enjoy your live show collection now :slight_smile:

Actually, once I am through the large catalogs of official releases by my two favorite artists (Howe Gelb solo & Giant Sand & side projects in one case, and Sonic Youth in the other), I plan on adding the huge decades-long live show catalogs that both artists offer. On a NUC. So I guess I will find out how that goes :slight_smile: )

Was the music always on the NAS or did you ever try to move the music onto the Nucleus+ internal storage?

I wonder if it could be a combination of the file structure and the network interface?


Good thought
I tried Hooking up an external drive but nothing changed

Interesting, i had heard about the occasional issues with big libraries of a few artists, but never got the background explained.

It doesnt make much sense to me neither, why the Nucleus+ couldn’t cope but the iMac did… I mean, yes, the NUC has got a lappy-style CPU and the iMac has got a desktop version, but that should not matter.

I assume your collection was/is mostly “unidentified” though? Not sure what effect that has on performance or if it even matters at all.

I assume though, that Roon might suffer more, trying to organize a library of your style where a simpler media management software perhaps only displays tags and don’t make the connections between artists and performances etc.

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I’ve posted the question to ROON support more than once but have never gotten an answer.

My collection is identified using MP3 Tag in a standard format

basically the Band name in Artist and the date of the concert in Album title (year-month-day)

I have a Nucleus Plus (1st ver) with 2 external USB drives. I have 185,000 files (wav, AIFF, DSD).

The Nucleus Plus works fine for me navigating my library and sounds excellent.

Damn shame the issues never were resolved.

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In ROON supports view it was resolved
To them it’s my library not the Nucleus+
Oh jeez I better go
I’m feeling my frustrations arise at the thought of it.
I’ll goto my grave believing the “right” thing to do was refund my Purchase

Maybe you can send your Nucleus+ to Roon support so that it can be diagnosed / fixed directly by Roon technicians.

Apologies for any Expressed frustration
My goal when I started this thread was to get info on why the IMAC works fine with my library.
It wasn’t to grind an axe against ROON.
Over the few weeks they worked, with me, on this issue they consistently said the Nucleus was fine.
Maybe they can check it out remotely?
So I never thought to bring it up with them.
They seemed certain it was my library.
In any event I sold the Nucleus and the person that bought it hasn’t said anything about it having issues.
I’ve just ordered an Innuos streamer/server.
Will be interesting to check out their OS. Ive heard it’s pretty good. Hard to imagine it’s on PAR with ROON (which when all said and done is an amazing piece of software.)

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Is it though? I don’t think it is. It’s a nice case. It’s not a great server.

You asked why difference but you don’t provide any specs of either machine. There is no 1 Nucleus+ and there is no 1 combination of 2015 iMAC.

Were you memory constrained? You don’t say how much memory is in your Mac. Or, more importantly, memory I/O constrained (this would require comparing the memory bus between the two systems which is largely dependent on the CPU and chipset used)? Were you disk I/O constrained? You don’t say what drive is in either machine. Was it your library? You don’t say where your library is stored or what network changes may / may not be different.

"Vaunted " in quotes to denote satire.
If you read the Roon advertisements you will see what I mean

-last year Roon support told me that my database presents Roon with “unique challenges”.
They advised me to add memory to make it 32gb which I did. They did say that still may not solve my issues

-my IMAC IS a 27 inch late 2015 model with 32gb memory. 3.2 GHZ quad core Intel i5

-the Nucleus+ was a “revision A”

-library was/is on a QNAP changed have been made to it from Nucleus to IMAC. I also tried using a Seagate external HD connected to the nucleus with no better luck

  • I cannot answer your I/O questions

Given information I have provided are you able to tell me why the IMAC can deal with my library where the Nucleus could not?

Room support clearly told me it was my library
Not the network
Not the NAS
not the external drive I tried

Did Roon support describe clearly what the issues or the root cause of these issues of your library are? Why it work and why it does not work in your system? Can these issues be fixed? I am curious as a Nucleus owner, and it may happen to any Nucleus at any time.