Occasional dropouts near the start of a track, but not right at the start - any pointers?

Support
1

Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

Intel NUC8i3, ROCK build 183, Roon 1.7 build 511
It’s never showing under 100x speed to this device even with MQA decoding (it only dips just under 100x when doing bit conversion for Sonos)

Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)

Billion router - only connected to the switch
TP Link Gigabit switch
QNAP NAS - mainly FLAC files (none are MQA)
BT Mesh wifi

Audio Devices (Specify what device you’re using and its connection type - USB/HDMI/etc.)

Auralic Aries Mini connected over Wifi (access point is in the same room)
SPDIF output to Meridian DSP5200.2

(Also Sonos as mentioned above, although that’s not used much, so I can’t really say whether it does or doesn’t happen with Sonos.)

Description Of Issue

I occasionally get a dropout in audio (silence), with the playback showing on the controller as continuing, as expected with Roon. The dropout is always around 5s into the track, and lasts around 5s. i.e. I get 5s of the start of the track, then 5s of silence, then it continues playing.

I’m getting this maybe 1 in 10 tracks.

I’ve had it from both Tidal and from the NAS. Most instances have been from Tidal, although most listening so far has been from Tidal too.

I’ve read the KB article and obviously a lot to look at there, but I wondered if the nature of this dropout would give a hint to the cause, as when it happens it’s very consistent. I’ve searched the forum too but couldn’t find any instances of the same.

FWIW I’ve never experienced this issue with using Auralic’s Lightning DS from the same NAS in the same system, and I’ve probably been running that for almost two years.

Loving Roon so far apart from this, so any help much appreciated.

Cheers!

3

Hi @s-t-e-v-o,

Welcome to the forum!

This issue sounds like it could be due to resync delay since SPDIF is involved. I would try adding a bit of delay to see if it helps with this issue, as mentioned in our Audio Basics Setup:

Resync Delay

This setting is primarily used when an S/PDIF, AES, or I2S connection is involved. Oftentimes, a DAC will take a little bit of time to lock onto a new audio signal–sometimes as long as a few seconds.

This setting causes Roon to play a configurable duration of silence whenever it begins a new stream. Like the last setting, this one is a problem solver. If you find that the beginnings of songs are being cut off, or you’re getting a lot of clicks and pops while your DAC locks on to an S/PDIF signal at the start of playback, try increasing this setting. 500ms is a good starting point. If that doesn’t work, try gradually increasing it from there.

We default this to a very small value because it produces delays in Roon’s user experience. Consider that when setting it up–unless you have an uncommonly slow DAC, settings longer than 1-2 seconds are probably not necessary.

You can configure the resync delay in Device Setup by right clicking the zone name in the bottom right -> Device Setup or by accessing it in Roon Settings -> Audio -> Cogwheel icon next to zone.

4

Thanks @noris - I’d read that part but thought it was referring to the very start of a track. Whereas I still get 5s or so of music before the silence.

Could this still be the case? I never get any clicks or pops.

And would this be due to a change in the depth/rate of the stream? If so I can try and force the issue to occur, while playing with the settings.

Naturally, since posting on the forum, the problem has temporarily vanished.

Thanks!

5

Hang on @noris … I’m getting it streaming to Sonos too.

An MQA 96kHz track following an MQA 44kHz track - both Tidal. 5s of silence after 7s of music.

And then I happened to pause that track 2 or 3 minutes in and then resume… and I got the 5s of silence again after resuming play for 5s or so. Core speed always showed over 90x and often over 100x.

Any ideas?

6

Hi @s-t-e-v-o,

Thanks for letting me know that this occurs for Sonos as well. I think it’s best if we eliminate the Core from the equation. Would you by any chance have another PC which you could use to temporarily host the Roon Core on? I would also suggest making a Backup of your current database (for safe-keeping) before making this switch, but the process is:

  • Install Roon on another PC
  • On the “Choose your Core” screen, instead of selecting the ROCK, choose “Use this PC”
  • Enable the audio zones in Roon Settings -> Audio
  • Verify if the same behavior occurs
7

Thanks, @noris.

I have a laptop I could use although it would be on Windows rather than ROCK. It’s an i7 although the processor benchmark is only about 2/3 of the i3 in the NUC.

This morning I had the issue with an mp3 file from the NAS to the Sonos - silence from 11s to 20s.

Do you still think go ahead with a temporary Core?

Thanks again… S

8

Hi @s-t-e-v-o,

Yes, please go ahead with testing for this behavior on the other PC. It should provide some more information if this issue is related to the Core or if it is related to the Network/Endpoints themselves.

I would load up on the PC a few sample files (less than 100) which show this behavior as a test. Please do not restore your existing database to Windows, just use a fresh one and connect the Windows PC in the same fashion as the ROCK is currently connected (to the switch via Ethernet).

9

Thanks, @noris

So I rebuilt the core on the laptop with the same library and Tidal.

I tested as much as I had time for on the main system - Aries Mini end point - chopping and changing tracks / sources / formats / sampling rates etc. I didn’t have any problems at all.

I would have been testing on streaming to the Sonos today but… overnight the laptop has entered a cycle of BSODs that I can’t get it out of.

So I’m back on the NUC core, although I won’t have much time to test today.

Is there any info I can give you about it or logs from it that could point towards any issue? Or any further settings in the NUC BIOS?

Thanks again…

10

Hi @s-t-e-v-o,

Thanks for testing the laptop as the Core. Have you tried using a fresh database on the NUC yet? It could be worth a try to see if the database is playing a factor here, here are instructions on how to set the old database aside:

  • Make a Backup of your current database
  • Stop RoonServer from running in ROCK’s WebUI
  • Navigate to your Roon’s Database Location
  • Find the folder that says “RoonServer”
  • Rename the “RoonServer” folder to “RoonServer_old”
  • Restart the RoonServer in the WebUI to generate a new Roon database folder
  • Verify if the issue occurs with a fresh database on the NUC Core
11

Thanks @noris - I’ve had a chance to do this now and the database is rebuilding.

I’ll report back when it’s complete and I’ve been able to test it.

S

1 Like
12

Hi @noris

New full database running and all the background analysis has completed.

Unfortunately it’s still happening though - on both NAS files and Tidal. This is streaming to Sonos.

[I haven’t been able to test on the proper Roon end point, but perhaps that’s not really necessary.]

So what next?!

Best,

Stephen

13

Hi @s-t-e-v-o,

Thanks for testing the Sonos endpoint. Next I’m wondering if logs perhaps contain any clues towards this issue.

Can I please ask that you reproduce this behavior once more and note the time + date + track it occurs on? Once I have this information I can enable diagnostics mode and see if logs indicate anything.

Thanks!

14

Thanks, @noris - it’s just happened a couple of times - this is streaming to Sonos, both from Tidal:

2128 (UK) - Kim Gordon, Hungry Baby - silence 0.05-0.08
2146 (UK) - Mini Mansions, Bad Things - silence 0.06-0.11

Best,

Stephen

15

Hi @s-t-e-v-o,

Thanks for those timestamps. I have enabled diagnostics mode and what this does is automatically upload a log set to our servers. I can confirm this report has been received and your case has been added to QA’s review queue. Once I have analysis back from them we should have more info.

16

Hi @s-t-e-v-o,

I appreciate your patience while I had a chance to discuss this with the hardware team. They would like to focus when this issue occurs on your Auralic Aires zone.

Can I please ask that you try to reproduce this behavior one more time on your Auralic zone and let me know the timestamps? This can also help us to compare the log output from the Sonos timestamp you reported above.

Thanks!

17

Hi @noris

OK will do - should have a chance to try later today or tomorrow.

S

1 Like
18

Hi @noris,

Just like taking a car in to the garage with a problem… I tried last night but it didn’t want to do it!

I’ll try again tonight or over the weekend and let you know. If it’s somehow cured then that’s great, although the streaming to Sonos during the day still does it occasionally.

I’ll update in due course…

Best,

Stephen

1 Like
19

No worries Stephen, if the behavior occur again do let me know the timestamp + track it occurs on and we can take another look.

20

Hi @noris

Did the streaming to Sonos not show anything up? It’s still doing that this morning:

0758: Big Moon - Take A Piece 0.08-0.14ish silence
0810: Raul Seixas - Metamorfose Ambulante 0.06-0.13ish silence

I just happen to be listening more in the office at the mo. Will be on the Aries again at the weekend.

Best,

Stephen

21

Hi @s-t-e-v-o,

Thanks for the information. Once you are able to reproduce this behavior on the Aires zone, can you please note the time + date + track and send me a copy of your Roon logs by using these instructions? Thanks!