This morning, deleted all files from the library and reinstalled Roon. Now, I’ve got a problem. All the album folders are still on the PC and attached disc, but they seem now to contain only cover art; the flacs seem to have disappeared completely! I did not know that the delete library files function actually deletes files from the original locations. Is there something I’m missing. We are talking over a thousand albums here - help!!
Sorry to hear this. Do you have a back up?
When you delete files in Roon it does warn you that the files will be deleted. It emphasizes the permanence in red as well.
Are there any files in your trash?
Please tell us you backed up your library before the deletions. But, I fear, that you would have mentioned the relief in having a backup to rely upon when restoring the missing FLAC files.
I can appreciate how devastating this must be for you if no backup exists and you are faced with a method for reconstructing your thousand album library.
With Apple’s iTunes when deleting files, most often one is prompted to keep the file(s) otherwise they are gone. Perhaps that option should be implemented in roon as well just in cases where a member unwittingly, despite the admonition provided warning of the result deletions cause, deletes files that are actually deleted and not merely removed from the GUI.
I realize none of my remarks are a balm for your situation. But roon’s innovators may decide that examples like this outcome are good reasons to implement a rescue step.
FYI, I am backed up two deep with my 8k+ library and roon’s program library (Mac- Go/Library/roon…)
Wishing you good fortune,
Richard
Sorry you have an issue here.
Can you describe exactly what you did here ?
Did you actually delete albums from your library ? e.g. highlight album, edit/delete etc ?
Did you see this message when you did that ?
or (and?)
Did you delete the Roon folder only in C:\Users{you}\AppData\Local\Roon to reinstall?
Any reason you felt a reinstall was needed ?
As others have mentioned, do you have a backup ?
Hi and Thanks for coming back so quickly. Yes, the above message did appear but I assumed it referred to the Roon folder. The expression “original folders” would have rung a louder bell. I had assumed that Roon collects music from all over your machine and makes a copy into its own Roon database. So, what was deleted was actually my backup saved from my original McIntosh music server. Never realised the Roon Library was just a series of links rather than a physical copy. Bemused they have taken that approach, given disc space is so cheap now. Its also not tidy at all.
I have tried recovering from the Recycle Bib but that does not seem to have worked, although every silly photo in my Drop Box has come back! Now running R-Undelete with fingers crossed.
These things are sent to try us!
I detect a kindred but wiser soul. That was my only backup and I thought the library was a copy of it. My own fault but I still think a) the library should be a physical copy b) the warning should be more explicit; hard disc means nothing when we are dealing with libraries and folders. As you say, hope Roon take the opportunity to improve on this. Still going to stick with the software, its otherwise fantastic.
Hi Reg, you live and learn as they say.
When you added the folders to your Roon install you maybe noticed this too ?
Hope you recover what you can (and then purchase a USB HDD for a proper backup)
good luck
[quote=“Reg_Basimi, post:6, topic:13542”]
the library should be a physical copy
[/quote]definitely not. I see no need to have it make a copy of my underlying music, and my server wouldn’t have sufficient space anyhow. Make and keep backups…
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Don’t agree. I think it should have its own separate integrity with its own data especially if its going to have this devastating delete capability. My deleted files were not even sent to the recycle bin and when I used the restore function, all the music locations were overwritten by other files on the same drive, so undelete software could not restore the music files. As luck would have it, I had 90% of my collection on a Sooloos Control, so I’ve done an export from that. Now creating a SEPERATE Roon folder into which the music will go and which will be the only folder on my machine that Roon can talk to. Its just another application and it shouldn’t have the power to delete stuff that other applications might want to use. Backups are meant to manage risk; its not sensible to build an architecture that depends on a risk provision - the risk should not be built-in in the first place.
Completely disagree on Roon creating a 2nd copy of files. Right now Roon data is completely separate from your files.
Completely agree that Roon should remove the Delete function as well as the Organized folder functions.
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Quite right about kindred. But still qualify as a Human-In-Training. And I learn more from my mistakes than when things go right. My method is to employ Super Duper (for Mac) and copy my entire library from one Promise Pegasus Thunderbolt Raid 5 to a second. I was doing that as well for a third Promise Pegasus but that Raid configuration was limited to 8TBs (about 6TBs in actuality). I am sure you will devise a system that will insure a full copy or whatever method you wish and thus provide the security should something go wrong, i.e. catastrophic.
Incidentally, that happened with Apple’s iTunes which destroyed my library (how? what triggered? I don’t know). And AppleCare, meaning well, given that support depending on who is providing it can differ in reliable “support” ruined my backup. Fortunately back then I was three deep, and a Senior support person saved my library which at the time was two thirds the size it is now.
Ninety percent recovery is good news considering. And, as Nick admonishes, there’s nothing like a proper backup or two to safety and security. Agree with your perceptions about risk. And I need to amend my remarks as the caveat about deleting tracks and the consequence is made manifest with a straight forward meaning. What I meant to suggest is that the added step, Keep Files, be implemented along with the deletion or some other mechanism to clear the runway without destroying the planes that land on it. Think I’ll quit while I am ahead.
I am sure this thread’s wisdom will serve old and new members alike.
Enjoy the music,
Richard
[quote=“Reg_Basimi, post:9, topic:13542”]
Its just another application and it shouldn’t have the power to delete stuff that other applications might want to use. Backups are meant to manage risk; its not sensible to build an architecture that depends on a risk provision - the risk should not be built-in in the first place.
[/quote]by this analogy Windows should remove explorer too. With all due respect, you made a mistake, take some accountability and learn from it.
2 Likes
[quote=“Rugby, post:10, topic:13542”]
Completely agree that Roon should remove the Delete function as well as the Organized folder functions.
[/quote]this I could go with - file management is not something Roon should be handling, and I guess removing it will save some from their own folly. If file delete capability were removed it’d still be important to be able to flag some content for deletion. Flagging for deletion could do two things: 1) ignore the files/ folders unless the flag is later removed and 2) generate a flat file (on demand) listing the folders flagged for deletion. A user can then modify the file to turn it into a batch file/ shell script for a mass deletion run and culpability could then only rest with them.
[quote=“Rugby, post:10, topic:13542, full:true”]
Completely agree that Roon should remove the Delete function as well as the Organized folder functions.
[/quote]Back in March, I put in a Feature Request for a simplified UI for ordinary users. Keep things like the Delete function for the Administrator/Librarian of the family.
[quote=“Reg_Basimi, post:9, topic:13542, full:true”]
My deleted files were not even sent to the recycle bin[/quote]
I think you said that your music files were not held locally on your PC, but on a separate server. It’s always been the case that the Recycle Bin functionality is only for local files. Deleting a file held on a server, even using Windows Explorer, is a permanent action - files are not sent to a Recycle Bin, either on the local PC or on the server…
Never knew that. Thanks
Course I made a mistake and of course I take responsibility for it. I’ve also said i am now taking steps for it never to happen again. But I still believe that the approach is wrong and counter intuitive. Its made worse by the fact that the warnings are not sufficiently unambiguous commensurate with the likely consequences if the user misreads/misunderstands them. We are talking IT service delivery here and any application developer will tell you that these things need to be on the lowest common denominator. No independent user test manager will pass that library delete function as currently presented. My last word on the matter. Got over 90% of my files back and Roon completely isolated from all but a single music folder on my machine.
[quote=“Reg_Basimi, post:17, topic:13542, full:true”]
I still believe that the approach is wrong and counter intuitive. Its made worse by the fact that the warnings are not sufficiently unambiguous commensurate with the likely consequences if the user misreads/misunderstands them. [/quote]
I’m not really sure what part of “Are you sure you want to delete these tracks. Tracks from your hard drive will be permanently deleted.” is particularly ambiguous… One thing’s for sure, you won’t be pressing the button under false assumptions ever again.
1 Like
This is exactly what I am trying to say. Good applications try to cater for human frailty. We are not all always alert, always focussed etc and mistakes happen. It is not right to make available as a routine function, something that will have irretrievable data effects, no matter how may warnings and no matter how loud those warnings are. To my mind that’s reckless if your are dealing with Johnny Average and somewhat acceptable only if you are dealing with geeks.
As I say, I’m bemused. Why delete data that is not yours. You didn’t generate it, you are merely given permission to use it. It only becomes Roon data when a Roon copy is created. Why apply an irretrievable delete function to your source data and not just your library? For me, these are fundamental questions.
The part where many normal people would assume it would be the library and not their original source data that would be deleted from the hard disc. If you ever spent time on a IT service desk, you’d understand!