Opinion of Roon

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Well, how do I put this? After a week of a trial period, I feel ‘Roon’ has a place in the musical streaming market. Does it allow the ‘very best’ of hi-res music to be streamed economically - a categoric ‘NO’.

Why do I suggest that? I have used Qobuz for a number of years, let me get that out of the way first. I have also purchased and downloaded content from Qobuz to my PC. That content has then been easily streamed to a Yamaha RX-A2050 via Ethernet from the PC. The Yamaha RX-A2050 sees the PC easily - no faffing about- as a server. The Yamaha RX-A2050 then plays the content up to a hi-res of 24bit/192 without an issue (Ethernet connection).

I recently purchased a Yamaha RX-A6A to upgrade the a2050. In my opinion, the a2050 is no slouch, it does produce extremely good hi-res sounds (through monitor audio apex speakers including subwoofer 7.1).

After I purchased the Yamaha Rx-a6a it experimented with Roon as a Qobuz user. I placed the app together with the core on my pc together with the app. The top and bottom of it is this. I cannot stream the full h-res quality from my pc via Ethernet to the receiver. Roon does not recognise it. However, I am able to stream Roon to the receiver via iPad to the receiver via chromecast ultra (max 96/24). In my opinion, when I stream the same content direct to the receiver from the pc which is recognised as a server (Roon is not) the sound quality is superior - by far. Let me be crystal clear - by far. Streaming from iPad via Roon to chromecast ultra is good - let me say that, but it does not compare to direct streaming from my PC and downloaded hi-res music - period.

In my opinion, Roon is an expensive Karaoke piece of software that allows a user to view the credits of the music you listen to. In reality, it absolutely does not improve sound quality. If anything it degrades it. My honest opinion. Simple as that.

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You don’t know how to use Roon yet. However, don’t use it if you don’t like it. Maybe your system is not adaquate.

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We are all entitled to an opinion, it doesn’t however mean that what we say has any intrinsic worth. If Roon doesn’t sound good to you through your system that’s ok, it’s use is optional.

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I’m glad you cleared that up, otherwise we would all have thought it sounds just fine, as none of the 300k Roon users has any experience with any other kind of system :slight_smile:

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That’s a lot of words to say that you never bothered to learn how Roon works. Or how digital audio works, and why 24/96 vs. 24/192 does not make any audible difference (by far or not) whatsoever.

If Roon does not add any value to your music listening, you do not need to use it, especially since you do not have any Roon-ready equipment and can not use it to its full potential anyway.

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Maybe you could post a screenshot of your signal path please?

In some cases people were reporting ´inferior sound quality by far´, they simply had some - unwanted or degrading - crosscoding or level normalization activated. If you are not trained for listening comparisons, a simple -2 or -3dB additional headroom do exactly give you the impression of ´inferior by far´. Or vice versa your devices might be altering the level depending on the digital stream they get.

If you do everything right in roon, including using a ´roon ready´ device, you do not have to fear inferior sound quality as this means a bit-perfect signal reaches the DAC. Roon does not necessarily improve sound quality but ensures that the untouched signal reaches the DAC. Improvement are more likely to occur when using the crosscoding, upsampling, convolution or headroom management in roon.

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Thanks for the response to my opinion. I am sure there are many people including yourself who feel Roon is worth the money. I admit I have only used Roon for around 1 week, therefore I accept I don’t fully understand how to use it correctly. However, if Roon wishes to catch a much larger market, the interface of the various elements within the software needs to be more intuitive.

I have watched a number of online videos on how to use it, together with its various functions. One of my initial learning points was interpreting the many anachronisms I need to interpret and understand. E.g NAS, RUC, ROCK, RAAT to name just 4.

As I mentioned, the Aventage AV receiver is able and capable of seeing a windows pc as a server. It is also capable of receiving audio files from that server up to MP3 / WMA / MPEG-4 AAC, ALAC: up to 96 kHz / 24-bit, FLAC: up to 384 kHz / 24-bit, WAV / AIFF: up to 384 kHz / 32-bit, DSD: up to 11.2 MHz. Therefore, the system is up to a very good specification. The audio is then fed to monitor audio apex speakers (7) and a monitor audio AW12 subwoofer. I consider the system more than capable of listening to the vast majority of audiophile music formats.

I already payout a subscription to Qobuz and don’t have a problem with that. Indeed, I even purchase and download music now and again if I feel the audio quality is justified. If Roon, could be used with my setup without having to purchase another storage solution, then I may have had a slightly better view of it. By the looks of it,the problem is down to RAAT (I know, I know anachronism again). That is why windows cannot relay Roon directly to the Rex-a6a. Therefore, Roon copies the path off my network from my PC to my IPad. It then transmits the information via airplay to Rx-a6a with reduced sound quality. Fortunately, the other option is to transmit it to Chromecast ultra dongle that is capable of a higher format to 24/48. However, some of my files are higher resolution. To compound things, I honestly hear a slightly better sound quality (channel separation and slightly warmer sound) if I stream directly via Ethernet from pc to the re-a6a receiver. The one big negative of this route, is that the Rex-a6a cannot view the album tracks in their original order. Roon does, together with all rooms other features. However, I cannot justify its additional cost if it’s sound quality is slightly inferior to my existing sound. Yes, I recognise Roon will be able to provide an excellent signal to my Yamaha if I purchase something like the neucleus one. But I cannot justify buying more hardware just to run subscription based software. Especially when the music originates from my own collection and an existing subscription service such as Qobuz. So, my point is that all that Roon offers that I do not already have, is software that provides karaoke, together with information such track credits. Roon does offer links to tracks based on my past listening. Yet, to a lesser degree Qobuz does that anyway. So, I will find it difficult to justify an extra annual subscription together with yet more hardware (£599 for neucleus one in the U.K.) That’s a lot of dosh.

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That’s just fine, and yes, Roon might need an investment to get the best out of it, depending on what one already has. (It doesn’t have to be a big investment, though). However, what you now wrote is very far from the initial over-the-top stuff:

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I am absolutely fine with people saying the possibilities roon is bringing are not worth the subscription fee in one’s particular case. That is a personal decision which I see a little different. Of course I wished there would be a ´roon light´ for a few bucks a month running in the cloud, but that does not look realistic at the moment.

Additional costs for hardware is not really an obstacle. If you do not want to spend 600 bucks, chances are high it would run on hardware which most of people already have (windows, Mac, NAS or alike).

Not sure which music you are listening to and if you have discovered all the features already. Despite from multiroom audio and DSP integration, I think roon is pretty unique in terms of systematically browsing by album releases, composers and compositions as well as blending local content and Qobuz/tidal. It might look like just some additional credits but it is much more than that. For example for classical music I would say the composition browsing alone is worth the fee for most people really interested in this genre.

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Roon does operate on and with windows. Unfortunately and for some reason that believe is related to the Roon Advanced Audio Transport system, it cannot directly push music files via Ethernet to my avr (apologies for any spelling errors previously or in this post - my iPad insists on changing spelling it does not recognise the word). What I do not understand is why an avr that is capable of seeing a windows server and hi-res music formats is unable to receive those same files directly when I use the Roon interface. Windows sees my network including the avr. It is a simple matter to push music from my pc to the avr. Similarly, The avr is able to request access to my pc and the music/video files and play them at full resolution as to when they were sampled. Yerpt Roon can’t, without additional hardware. Why?

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Because the device isn’t Roon Ready. This is like buying a device that doesn’t support Chromecast and then asking why you can’t use Chromecast to stream to it.

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Don’t use AirPlay with Roon. That somewhat defeats the purpose.

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If you can show me away of using a windows PC where I keep my music to stream it to the Roon tested avr without losing any of the original quality, please let me know how to. I don’t want to purchase more hardware though. I’ve already spent an enormous sum, therefore I was hoping the existing system can be used.

System: windows PC (2024) and capable of editing and processing hdr video content easily. The pc is not slow. 900 mb/s broadband. Not slow. Pc to Yamaha Rx-a6a avr. Monitor audio Apex speakers 6xA10 1xA40, 1xAW12 subwoofer. Pc to avr via Ethernet OR Wi-Fi.

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I can’t see the Roon Tested label for the Yamaha RX-A2050, neither on the Yamaha nor the Roon Partners website. Edit: I see you switched to an RX-A6A.

However, it doesn’t really matter. You can use USB or maybe HDMI to get full Roon quality. Just not over the network. It is what it is and it’s entirely limited by the capabilities of the AVR and not a problem in Roon.

For adding Roon Ready over network, you can attach a capable streamer. Sets you back €100-200 (Raspberry Pi4 DYI or WiiM Pro Plus ready-made).

Be aware that Dolby 5.1 only works over HDMI anyway, I believe.

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When I’m away from home, I run Roon Server and Client on my Dell laptop. It connects by WIFI to a Raspberry Pi4 which connects by USB to my Chord Mojo 2 DAC.

At home, I run Roon Server on a Roon Nucleus connected by WIFI to a Raspberry Pi4 which connects by USB to my Meridian Prime pre-amp. I use RCA from there to a Denon AVR-2805.

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The basic point is that you are hoping that Roon will use DLNA so that your Yamaha RX-A6A will see your Roon Server on your PC, and you can browse and play your music library via the RX-A6A.

Roon uses its own protocol, RAAT, and not DLNA. This was a deliberate choice by Roon Labs, who developed RAAT and who view DLNA as putting lipstick on a pig (I paraphrase, but that is the bottom line).

Roon Ready network streamers use RAAT. The RX-A6A is Roon Tested, not Roon Ready. So as I said elsewhere, you can use Roon Server to send audio to the RX-A6A, but you can’t use the RX-A6A to browse a Roon Server’s library.

If you want the highest quality audio, then connect your Roon Server PC via HDMI to the RX-A6A. If you need to connect over ethernet, then you’re going to have to use something running Roon Bridge and connect it via digital or optical audio to the RX-A6A.

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OK, thanks for that!

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OK, get it. Its going to be impractical to connect via hdmi, since the pc is in a different room. Ethernet is sorted out though. Would I be correct in thinking that the neucleus one is a roon bridge? If so, that is the hardware I am reluctant to purchase due to cost. One other point. The Roon app on my PC tells me that even if I ‘push’ my music file to the rx-a6a it goes via airplay. I don’t quite understand that as I understand airplay to be wireless in nature. Therefore, am I correct in thinking the PC must send the music file via wifi to the rx-a6a via airplay? Hence the reduction in sound quality?

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It’s a complete Roon Server. It’s too expensive to be used just as a bridge. This is all you need:

(On an RPi you’d run Roon Bridge)

It’s not. AirPlay works over Ethernet and wifi. „AirPlay“ is just Apple’s way of saying that it doesn’t matter what’s between the devices. However, it is always limited to 44.1/16.

There is no difference in sound quality between wifi and Ethernet if using the same streaming file at the same resolution, unless the endpoint is very badly designed.

Neither is there really a big difference between CD quality and hi-res unless you hear ultrasonic sound.

Did you volume match to 0.2 dB with a measuring device before comparing Roon and your other source? Because that’s the most likely cause. The human perception cannot consciously distinguish a loudness difference smaller than 1 dB, but it hears it as a quality difference. Louder is perceived as better.

In addition, you should post a screenshot of your Roon signal path as someone else already suggested further up.

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And once the Yamaha AVR receives those “audiophile music formats,” it internally converts all of them to 24 bit 96 kHz or even 48 kHz. That is how an AVR operates — it accepts a multitude of high resolution formats for consumer convenience and tacitly converts those formats to its internal operating rate for its own convenience.

Worrying over and jumping through hoops to get >48 kHz audio to an AVR is not worth it.

AJ

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