Ordering of tracks from bootleg materials

[Seth_Tilis]

Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

NUC10i3FNH1 Rock: Version 1.0 (build 227) stable Roon: Version 1.7 (build 667) stable

Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)

Linksys 1gig

Audio Devices (Specify what device you’re using and its connection type - USB/HDMI/etc.)

Bluesound Node2i connected via wired ethernet to Topping D70 via Coax

Description Of Issue

This is not so much of an issue as it is a how to question:

I have a large collection of Grateful Dead Music that I share from the usual sites. The tagging on a significant portion of the shows is lacking, although the naming structures are fairly uniform. However the track sorting as interpreted by Roon on this material can be off, and I am looking for a way that Roon may be able to help sort tracks according to the naming standards.

If you see the above image, the way that the standard should work is as the following…

gd1976-06-19s1t1 would Be Grateful Dead with a date of 1976-06-19 Set 1 Track 1

As you can see from the screen shot, Roon orders this as Set 1 track 1, then Set 2 track 1. Set 1 track 2, Set 2 track 2 etc.

Is there a way to change the way Roon orders the track to be Set 1 Track 1 then Set 1 Track 2 etc.

[David_Snyder]

It sounds like you need to work on the quality of metadata that’s embedded into your files rather than trying to do everything with Roon’s databaes metadata layers. There are a number of good ID3 tag editors out there. I use MediMonkey and the tools that come with dBpoweramp, but these are probably far from the best available. I encourage you to do some searching.

Once you update the embedded metadata in your files, force Roon to re-scan your library. It should pick up the changes.

Here’s a link to tag recommendations to see which ones Roon cares about.

File Tag Best Practice

[Seth_Tilis]

David, thank you for the response. I 100% agree. However, it is not so simple.

By editing the tags, I alter the hash of the file, and these files are actively traded and hashes matter. I would either need to keep 2 copies of every file, one for trading archive, and one that I can edit metadata. Or take my copies out of trading circulation. Which isn’t a big deal, except once in a while someone will ask for a show that is not being actively seeded, and I will seed it for a bit so that the requestor can get a copy.

There is also a factor of effort. This is a task that frankly scares me. It is hundreds and hundreds of shows, and while they are very well documented, as they invariably have an info file which documents the show, and also an ID called an SHNID that links to an database (not sure if I can post it). This is a big task, and it scares me so it never gets started, and there are plenty of external databases that I can and do use which dates back to trading tapes in college. I have three copies of DeadBase sitting next to me.

Roon is the best music playback system I have used, and I have tried a few, I am committed to Roon for a bunch of reasons, but in managing my collection of Grateful Dead shows I have been going directly to the interface of my Node 2i which lets me file browse to get good access to shows I have, but for various reasons are lost or otherwise unavailable to Roon.

After getting a quality education on tagging and sorting this afternoon, that veil was lifted, and I can see my entire collection in Roon. I went from 1716 that I could see by filtering on Artist Grateful Dead to now Seeing 2375. I am pretty excited by it, as I enjoy working out of Roon so much more than BlueOS.

Now if I could get my setlists to sort correctly, I do not need the metadata, I have it elsewhere, and am 100% used to working this way.

The ultimate solution would be for Roon to access the SHNID database and populate the data for me, it is all available, I do not know if there would be a cost, but my understanding of the rules written or otherwise for trading of Live Grateful Dead materials that there can be no cost involved. There has been sporadic discussions on this in the past.

Sorry for the saga, but just wanted it understood why I am asking what I am asking.

[David_Snyder]

Got it. This is an incredibly specific use case. Unless one of the Roon developers is as in to trading this content as you, an integration with the SHNID database or similar solution is unlikely. Good luck!

[Seth_Tilis]

I agree which is why I make due with what I can and keep my expectations in check. I certainly do not represent the market.

[Joop_Seters]

Have you tried to divide a show into separate directories, one per set?
f.i.
Grateful Dead - June 19, 1976, Capitol Theatre - Passaic, NJ (main directory)
Set1 (subdir)
Set2 (subdir)

I have a lot of GD shows myself but have not yet imported them into Roon. And besides that, I’m not able to start Roon at the moment.

[Seth_Tilis]

This would certainly work, but would limit me being able to seed a show, unless I reconstructed the original directory, which is also possible.

[Joop_Seters]

I have duplicated all personal music I want in Roon to separate Roon library directories. I costs extra disc space but I find it safer that way because Roon physically deletes tracks if you remove them from Roon.
Doing this would solve your seeding problem and enable you to tailor the GD show to what you like in Roon.
The last windows 10 update seems to have solved my Roon problems, maybe I will look at my GD and others live shows coming days.

[dylan (Dylan Caudill)]

Hi @Seth_Tilis,

In addition to the file tag suggestions above, you could use the folder structure we recommend for multi-disc sets to organize the files without editing them directly.

[rcrawley]

I also do a fair amount of trading of older live shows which are a mix of FLAC and SHN, but I’ve never heard of SHNID. Is that something on db.etree.org? Something specific to SHN vs FLAC?

FWIW, if your files are in FLAC (and apologies if I missed that detail but I’m not seeing it in your post) you can safely edit/add to tags and other metadata (like cover art) without changing the FLAC fingerprint (the checksum of the audio payload only). Although your resulting binary file sources will be different, your md5s/ffps/torrent hashes should be the same…I think. Actually your torrent hashes will be different so that may not help with re-circulating.

Alternatively, you could keep two copies of each show: As a new show comes in, copy it, convert it to FLAC (if necessary), re-tag with track names, art, etc, and then import into Roon. This is what I do for shows that I know will continue to circulate. It does cost me 2x in storage but worth it IMO to keep the sources original while getting full usage of Roon. And it’s fun to kill time organizing files and tags; it’s addictive.