OS X : Issue with Roon Remote [Resolved]

Hello

I listen my music by using Roon Remote on my iPad and my Laptop (OS X El Capitan and previously Yosemithe). Since many months I have got one issue on my laptop :

  • I heard some “cuts” when I listen my music and the workaround it’s to clean the “queue” and/or close the application on my laptop and start it again. And when I watch in Roon Remote on “Signal path” there is no issue. It’s very strange.

My configuration :

  • MacBook Pro OS X El Capitan (10.11.6) ; WLAN connection used
  • iPad iOS 11.2.6 ; WLAN connection used
    I never had this issue by using my iPad and I already perform a clean installation on my laptop

Is there anybody who already had this issue on OS X ?
Finally the quality of the music is linked to the operating system where we have Roon Remote installed ?

Thanks for your help.

what spec is you MacBookPro? 10.11.6 is a maximum OS level on some older models that dont have AC wifi or much processing power and …this brings me to my next question

What formats are you playing and sample rates?

Also any DSP in use?

Wifi can be hot and miss especially if both core and client are using the same AP

It’s a MacBoox Pro 15" 2.53 GHz mi-2009 and it’s correct “OS X El Capitan” is a maximum OS I can install on this laptop.

99% of my muscis are in : AIFF in 16/44, and for sound the “Sample Rate Conversion” is activated (the max frequency 352.8kHz or 384kHz are used)

Regarding my configuration :

  • Roon Server : installed on Linux Fedora ; wired connection used
  • Roon Bridge : installed on Linux Debian ; wired connection used
  • Roon Remote iPad : wireless connection used
  • Roon Remote MacBook Pro : wireless connection used

Thanks.

How old is the iPad being used - and what WIFI speed is being used?

With other devices using the same wifi at 802.11n speeds you might be pushing the 352.48/384KHz usability.

Tagging @support for this too

I suggest you try the more basic 24/192 rates or native (no up sampling) and see how that pans out. if all is good then you might want to look at either faster wifi support (802.11ac) or try with the MBP connected via LAN cable.

1 Like

Thank you for the report and sharing your feedback with us @LittleScarabee, the insight is very appreciated!

Based on the symptoms you are describing it sounds like you are experiencing audio dropouts on the mentioned Roon remotes (i.e the MacBook Pro and the iPad). I see from your setup description that you are running RoonBridge that is making use of a wired connection and my assumption is that this device is not exhibiting the same behavior, correct?

I agree with the advice given in @wizardofoz’s previous post and would highly recommend testing with different sample rates with no upsampling involved. Additionally, knowing how the MBP responds when making use of a hardwired connection would also be a good data point to have.

-Eric

@wizardofoz : I have got the issue on my laptop only not with the iPad and we use the same access point and the speed is : 2.4 GHz. I disable the speed 5 GHz. I’ll try to use my MPB connected via LAN cable and change the up sampling .

@Eric : Yes, RoonBridge use a wired connection. I’ll test another type of connection on my MBP.

Last questions :
Why the sound goes through RoonRemote and it’s not a flow directly between RoonServer and RoonBridge ?
Currently, hardware and/or Software hosted RoonRemote have a “big” impact on the quality of the sound, correct ?

Thanks

I am not sure that we fully understand your setup. What device is attached to the Roon Bridge that is playing the music? Is it a DAC that feeds the analog signal to other analog devices?

Unless the iPad or the MacBook Pro are playing the music (acting as endpoints), none of the music traffic goes through them. You should be able to do just about anything to a Roon Remote and the music will keep playing at least until the track ends. The traffic is between the Roon Core and the Roon Bridge with the Roon Remotes controlling the Roon Core.

My assumption from your description is that the iPad and mbp are being used as endpoints but are having break up of the stream… perhaps you need to give a fuller explanation of ALL of the items in the setup including what output devices (headphones/DA’s etc) that are being used and which is working fine and which is not.

Hello @Speed_Racer, @wizardofoz,

My configuration is :
[ SWITCH ] - - - - LAN 1000 Mb - - - - [ ROON SERVER ]
____|- - - - LAN 100 Mb - - - [ ROON BRIDGE ] - - - USB CABLE - - - [ DAC ] - - - [ RCA CABLE ]
____|# # # # # # WIRELESS # # # [ iPad Air with Application Roon]
____|# # # # # # WIRELESS # # # [ MacBook Pro with Application Roon ]

Details :

  • For RoonServer :
    – Operating System : Fedora 25 with Kernel CCRMA (RealTime)
    – Motherboard : Intel Core i3
    – Memory : 2Go
    – Memory Usage : Used = 521Mo ; Free = 109Mo ; Buff/Cache = 1162Mo ; Shared = 0Mo ; Swap Used = 0Mo

  • For RoonBridge :
    – Operating System : ARMbian Debian 9
    – Motherboard : Olimex Lime2 4Gb
    – Memory : 1Go
    – Memory Usage : Used = 122Mo ; Free = 640Mo ; Buff/Cache = 236Mo ; Shared = 7Mo ; Swap Used = 0Mo

  • For DAC :
    – Model : 2Qute Chord

Is it more clear ? Do you need more details ?

Unless the iPad or the MacBook Pro are playing the music (acting as endpoints), none of the music traffic goes through them. You should be able to do just about anything to a Roon Remote and the music will keep playing at least until the track ends. The traffic is between the Roon Core and the Roon Bridge with the Roon Remotes controlling the Roon Core.

I agree, but today I have this issue and after kill the application and clean the queue on my MacBook Pro (i.e. RoonRemote) : the problem disappeards. I have got no issue with the iPad it’s very strange.

Is there any issue with OS X !? I already perform a clean install !
Is there any log on RoonRemote on OS X I can check ?

Thanks

If all you are doing is using the MacBook as a remote, it can’t (shouldn’t be able to) cause cut outs or anything like that. In theory, all it has is a view into what the Roon Core is currently setup to play. The MacBook acting as a remote can change any of that but only in a proactive user specified manner. The Roon Core/Roon Bridge pair does not rely on any of the remotes for playback and they should have no bearing on playback.

Can you post a screenshot of your Signal Path?

Cheers, Greg

Hello

@Speed_Racer : I forget to specity my souds is hosted on one partition of my SSD. Probably I have got an issue with my SSD. I’ll switch my library from SSD to the NAS, connected over the LAN.

@Greg : See below the screenshot
https://i.imgur.com/c3s8ami.png

Your Roon music tracks are stored on the MacBook SSD? That would have been useful information to have in the first post…

@Speed_Racer,

My music is not hosted on my MacBook but on RoonServer : I have got 1 x SSD with two partitions : first for the system (i.e. Linux Fedora) and the second for my music. Sometime I launch “rsync” command to synchronise my library hosted on my NAS with the library hosted on my RoonServer.

Sorry to have forgotten this details since the beginning. It’s not easy to provide a clear vision sometimes ! :expressionless:

Dear @Speed_Racer, @Eric, @wizardofoz

After some days I can reproduce the issue today !
My configuration on Roon :

  • Upscaling enable
  • Volume leveling = Auto
  • Target volume level = -24
  • Volume adjustment = -5dB

As soon as I had the issue, I done these tests :
1 / I disabled the upscaling : KO, issue still here
2 / I enable the “Upscaling” and change the target “Volume Level” from -24 to -23 (default value) : OK, issue has disappeared

Once again, I forget to specify since the beginning I use the “Volume Leveling” since few weeks and I have the issue few weeks after enable this option in Roon.

Do you think we could have an issue with the last update of Roon on this option ?
Do you think I need to perform another test ? If yes, what kind of test ?

Thanks

Update 07:04 UTC+1 :

  • Issue still here, and I need to reboot my server to solve the problem.
  • I upgraded the operating system of my server to the last version (from Fedora 25 to 27)…wait and see

Hi @LittleScarabee ---- Thank you for the feedback and sharing these observations you have made during your testing. Very appreciated.

Before we continue forward, I want to step back for a moment to make sure that we are on the same page so I can properly advise continuing forward. Please see below.

  • When you reported this behavior with the mentioned that you were hearing “some cuts” on the laptop acting as your Roon remote. Myself and wizardofoz had suggested the following test:

    “I agree with the advice given in @wizardofoz’s previous post and would highly recommend testing with different sample rates with no upsampling involved. Additionally, knowing how the MBP responds when making use of a hardwired connection would also be a good data point to have.”

  • Where these tests ever performed and if so what was the outcome?

-Eric

@Eric

It’s ongoing. I just wanted to confirm some thing in first on my current configuration.
I’ll keep you informed tomorrow : I scheduled to listen the music during the day withtout any upscaling.

Thanks

Dear @Eric

I perform these tests this morning :
1 / Disable the upscaling, after 20 minutes : KO ; the issue is back

Evidence : https://imgur.com/wqH8qkb

2 / In following : Disable the upscaling, clean the queue of the songs in Roon, play again the album : KO ; the issue is back
3 / In following : Enable the upscaling, clean the queue of the songs in Roon, play again the album : OK , the issue disappeared

Evidence : https://imgur.com/o7UmM3s

4 / In following : I put the song in “pause” 3 minutes : KO , the issue is back
5 / In following : clear the queue of the songs in Roon, play again the album : OK , the issue disappeared
6 / After 30 minutes I put the song in pause during 2 hours, after start the song and play during 1:15 : OK, no issue

Album used for my tests (as usual) :

https://imgur.com/tMryqEo

I’m lost !

UPDATE 03:19 PM UTC+1 :

  • After step 6 I put my music (noted A) in pause during 1:15 and when I start the music the problem back ! I put again in pause my song (noted A) and play a new song (noted B) problem still here ! …I put again in pause the song (noted B)…after 2 minutes I start again the song (noted B) : the issue disappeared

Does it means the issue it’s on the buffer, it’s means hardware issue on my sever (i.e. on the memory) ? and/or on the player ?

Thanks for all

Hi @LittleScarabee ---- Thank you for touching base with me and sharing the results of your testing. Very appreciated!

I took a look at the provide screenshots and I can see that the DSP engine is enabled in all cases, have you tried disabling this completely during your testing? If not I would recommend doing so and confirming how things perform. Additionally, it is a touch unclear to me based on your most recent post, but were these test scenarios conducted with the MBP using a hardwired connection?

-Eric

Hi @Eric

Thanks for your reply. I perform these tests :
1 / Disable the “DSP Engine” (upscaling from 44.1 kHz to 352 kHz disabled) : OK, the issue disappeared

https://imgur.com/n6yPwK5

2 / Enable the “DSP Engine” (upscaling from 44.1 kHz to 352 kHz enable) : KO, the issue is here

https://imgur.com/7VHKBKu

3 / Disable the “DSP Engine” (upscaling from 44.1 kHz to 352 kHz disabled) : KO, the issue is here
4 / Enable the “DSP Engine” (upscaling from 44.1 kHz to 192 kHz enable) : KO, the issue is here
5 / Enable the “DSP Engine” (upscaling from 44.1 kHz to 352 kHz enable) : OK, the issue disappeared
6 / Enable the “DSP Engine” (upscaling from 44.1 kHz to 192 kHz enable) : KO, the issue is here

https://imgur.com/EKE0qRA

7 / Enable the “DSP Engine” (upscaling from 44.1 kHz to 352 kHz enable) : OK, the issue disappeared

https://imgur.com/7VHKBKu

See below my current configuration on DSP Engine :

https://imgur.com/DBCyslz

Thanks