I love the fact that when I first set up Roon, it scanned my library, and put a lot of similar Tidal music into my library (especially music from artists I had tracks of). However that was based just on my digital library. I’ve also got a decent vinyl collection. Luckily for me, Tidal has a digital versions of large number of my LPs. So I can use Roon to find those LP’s on Tidal, and click “Add to My Library”. Awesome.
However, it raises a concern/question…
I find that for many of my LP’s, Roon has already figured out that I like that music, and put the digital version of that LP in my library for me. Cool. So I do not see an “Add to My Library” button when I review the album in Roon - it’s already there.
But don’t I run the risk that - some time in the future - Roon may decide to remove that album? What Roon adds, Roon might take away, correct? If so, how do I tell Roon to keep an album in my library permanently?
I have a more basic version of that concern: I add interesting music in Tidal to my Roon collection, what happens if/when I cancel my Tidal account? Will I forget about those things? I am biased toward using Tidal for discovery and evaluation and then buying what seems important, but that goes against the principle of streaming. Old-fashioned.
Will Roon keep them in the library even if the Tidal subscription is cancelled? Or does it clean them out?
Sorry Steve, I don’t know the answer to your OP. My guess…I cannot see a circumstance where Roon would exercise some editorial control over what is in your library. The guys would never build code to do that.
Ending your subs would have an impact.
Label removes an album from Tidal. Maybe this stays in your library but shows as unavailable to play.
Thanks Nick. I’m inclined to agree with you assuming I left everything alone. But I don’t. I actively go in and add dislikes to things to make them (the things I don’t like that Roon added) explicitly go away. And I assume that could lead to problems. Here’s a hypothetical scenario…
Let’s say I’ve got no Rolling Stones music, because I only like their “Let It Bleed” album (this is massively hypothetical LOL). But I do have a bunch of contemporaneous British bands in digital form. So when I started Roon the first time, it added more British rock bands from that era. Including “Let It Bleed” (my one Stones LP), and other Stones albums that I don’t like. So I “dislike” all the Stones stuff but “Let It Bleed”. Don’t I now run the risk that it’ll pull that, assuming I just don’t like the Stones?
I know that sounds like a wacky hypothetical scenario. But I do a lot of “disliking” of stuff that Roon incorrectly assumes I’ll like.
There’s also another side to my OP, which is not about “losing” stuff, but rather about not being able to give Roon the positive reinforcement that (I assume) the act of clicking “Add to Library” would do. Since Roon’s already put the album in, I can’t do that.
Sure… I could “like” the album. But I prefer to use that only for things that I’m really nuts about.
I’m assuming that Roon is responding to “Add to Library” the same way as finding something in your digital library initially. But I can’t do that for thins it’s found for me (that I have in LP form). Maybe this needs to be a feature request…
A few months ago, I selected a Bill Evans, Friends Old and New from TIDAL HIFI for My Music/Albums and added that album to Favorites. Several days ago, it disappeared. I emailed TIDAL Support re the disappearance and my inability to search and find it. I was politely informed that labels streaming licensing can change and a title can be removed. I was provided with a link to use to request the album. I saw no reason to pursue the matter.
Roon didn’t automatically add Tidal albums at setup. Rather there was an option to add pre-made Tidal collections by genre to your library. The option has a default selection enabled (which has created issues for people) and I suspect you may have imported that default, or made a more deliberate decision to import other genre collections.
There is no functionality for Roon to add or delete Tidal albums in your library of its own accord. Tidal pre-made collections can be imported at setup and occasionally Tidal may remove an album from streaming as noted by Richard.
If you cancel your Tidal subscription then I believe all Tidal albums would be removed from the Roon library, but I haven’t checked that. One way of confirming it might be to log out or disable Tidal (Settings/Services/Edit) and restart Roon. That should show your library as it would be without Tidal.
Thanks for the clarification Andybob, but it’s a subtle distinction. I did opt in for some genres. The point isn’t really WHEN or HOW the albums were added. The point is it was not done by me clicking “Add to Library” (which is fine), and I have no way of telling Roon to “Add to Library” so that it will STAY in my library. That is - of course - presuming there is no licensing change that dictates its removal.
Thanks to Richard for pointing that out.
I don’t want to get the Tidal albums out of my library. Did I make my OP too complicated? Maybe I should try to restate…
There are Tidal albums in my library that I did not explicitly add, that coincide with LP’s that I own. Awesome. But I’m concerned that whatever caused them to come into my library, might get reversed. Also, because I never had the opportunity to explicitly click “Add to Library”, then Roon does not get the benefit of knowing I want that particular album, so I loose the benefit of Roon’s various recommendations (or possibly radio selections) based on it having that knowledge.
I expect that what caused those Tidal albums to come into your library was a batch import resulting in them having exactly the same “status” as if you had explicitly clicked “Add to Library” in relation to each album. You might check that in your Tidal account where I would expect all such albums to be favourites.
If you are concerned to unequivocally ensure that is the case then you could export the relevant albums to a file (so you know what they were), delete them from Roon/Tidal (which can take some time to synchronise) and then add them again manually either in Roon or Tidal. My suspicion, however, is that doing so would make no difference to how either Tidal or Roon treat the albums.
If said import is supposed to be something I did, I’ve never imported anything. That’s not it…
I have exactly zero favorites in Tidal. I checked.
Good suggestion. Thank you. I’ll give that a shot! Though it will take QUITE a while…
I’d be shocked it that were true. But it sounds like we are both speculating. But would be nice if Roon staff had the opportunity/time to chime in with real knowledge on this question, so that we don’t have to guess.
Yes, I am guessing and I think the interesting fact that you have no favourites in Tidal falsifies my guess.
Let’s set a notification for @brian to drop in and tell us if initial Tidal pre-set imports are treated differently from subsequent imports. It may be a welcome distraction from torturing some poor defenceless version of RoonSpeakers until it breaks !
Glad you found my small, limited contribution a note to consider in your equation for what, how, when, why TIDAL and roon work together in a synergy that is within the realm of roon whatever those parameters are and with the realm of TIDAL whatever those parameters are.
In this way, we, you, andybob, et al can exchange our POVs, experiences etc. One way is to do what I did, to wit, contact TIDAL directly, i.e., email and pose the question, i.e., where is my Bill Evans Favorite Album (or one of them) and thankfully receive a response. It’s gone. And that’s that. I imagine TIDAL would counsel you in what to expect should you make a change and what that change will accomplish one way or the other.
roon Labs kind of spoils us. They are ever present. They take their clients seriously and with respect. They give us reliable feedback and timely. They acknowledge peccadillos and are prepared to correct what can be or suggest ways of working with roon consistent with their synergy and organization, and they are open to innovating what others prefer if consistent with their grand plan. That’s the equation for the pursuit of excellence. I haven’t experienced one instance of less than…
Or a shorter version is, I am a happy customer (smile).
Enjoy the music. Music’s the thing; the equipment seduces,
Richard
I could not agree more that Roon Labs spoil us. Indeed they do! And I’m grateful for it.
And I would be HAPPY to contact Tidal directly, if I thought the issue I’m raising was a Tidal issue. But Tidal does not put music in my Roon library, as I understand it. Appears to be a Roon function. Roon does it in the background in the initial installation process. Roon MAY do it on for us on an ongoing basis as more of our digital music is discovered. And it definitely does it if we request such by clicking “Add to Library”.
So unless I’m missing something, this is in Roon Labs court.
Roon doesn’t add music to your library without being asked to. In setup it offers to add pre-made collections from Tidal by genre. When the user says ‘yes’ to that then those collections are added. If the user unselects all genres then no collections are added. There is no background process which adds music, either at setup or later, just an option to add pre-made collections.
Edit: The pre-made collections are devised by Tidal and are also offered by Tidal to non-Roon Tidal subscribers. They are the same for all users. All Roon does is populate what genres appear in the collection dialogue at setup.
Edit 2: Can’t verify collections were devised by Tidal and appear to have misremembered being offered them in Tidal. This post indicates that the collections were devised by Roon staff. Importing them used to mark them as favourites included in “My Music” in Tidal:
Perhaps I am either not making myself clear or I am not correct. Let me use an example. Without roon Labs, I logged into TIDAL HIFI and found a Bill Evans album, Friends Old and New. I added the album to Favorites; and it appeared in “My Music”/Albums. The same with a recommended playlist, The Rolling Stones Best Songs which I added to my Favorites; and it appeared in My Music. All this without roon Labs in the process.
When I opened roon, I discovered My Music additions was reflected as “new” selections. I never added them to roon. roon merely mirrored my Music. If I have this incorrect, so be it. I never thought to understand any steps taken other than to notice whatever I added to my Favorites were mirrored in roon.
The same, as far as I understand what actually took place, is true of Amarra For TIDAL HIFI. Apologies to roon Labs if I am violating any policies. Those additions to My Music appeared in that application without my adding it purposefully to A4T.
I assume (rightly or wrongly) that whatever I do within TIDAL HIFI, given I have a subscription; and I have linked that subscription with roon and with A4T, that it’s the integration with roon and A4T with TIDAL HIFI that allows what I add to TIDAL to appear in those applications. Have I misunderstood you? If so, my pardon. But that is my understanding.
And consequently, when TIDAL no longer included the Bill Evans album I added to My Music because of streaming licensing agreements, neither roon nor A4T displayed them in My Music within the application. Res Ipsa Loquitur.
Richard. It appears you do not understand. As you stated, your album wound up in your Roon library because you made it a favorite in Tidal. I have no favorites in Tidal. With the exception of the the music in my digital library (music I possess digital copies of that Roon can access), AND because I have no favorites in Tidal, then ANY music in my Roon library is music that Roon put there.
Which brings me to Andybob’s point…
[quote=“andybob, post:17, topic:4349, full:true”]
Roon doesn’t add music to your library without being asked to. In setup it offers to add pre-made collections from Tidal by genre. When the user says ‘yes’ to that then those collections are added. If the user unselects all genres then no collections are added. There is no background process which adds music, either at setup or later, just an option to add pre-made collections.
[/quote]You are mis-stating this Andybob. Roon DID put music in my Roon library. Granted, it apparently did it because I ASKED for a pre-made collection. That’s fine. But make no mistake, ROON did it. I just gave Roon “permission” in the setup process.
So there’s my problem - as stated before - except for those Tidal albums that must go away due to changes in licensing - some of the albums that Roon put in my Roon library (specifically those I have LPs of), are things that I want to STAY in my Roon library permanently. If Tidal changes the list that caused them to go into my Roon library, I don’t want Roon to pull them out. Simple.
Not ignoring your reply. I just have nothing else to add. And I agree with your first sentence: “Richard. It appears you do not understand…” I don’t. But that’s not important. The distinctions that are meaningful to you and the outcome(s) you are seeking are therefore the focus.
