Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)
TEXT GOES HERE
Audio Devices (Specify what device you’re using and its connection type - USB/HDMI/etc.)
Mac on WiFi, Linn DSM coveted to router via Ethernet cable
Description Of Issue
Hi
When I’ve been playing playlists I have saved within Roon I have noticed on a number of occasions that playback simply stalls. When this happens the track time slider at the bottom of the screen stops progressing, and although the little volume bars to the left of the album art in ‘Queue’ still go up and down, the music stops playing. The only way I can resume playback is if I remove the stalled track from the queue and start playing the next track in the queue, which is a bit of a pain.
I’m controlling Roon using a new iPad which is about five feet from the router, both iPad and Mac have up to date versions of IOS and OS, When I previously used Linn Kazoo to direct playback of Qobuz playlists it never stalled once in ten months, so I’m obviously a bit dismayed at this apparent clunkiness in the Roon software, given the financial outlay. Any advice would be gratefully received.
I’m pretty sure it’s only when I’m in the Linn DSM zone, as that is when I tend to listen to playlists, ie a number of tracks in succession. It also happens when I load a single track to queue and let Roon Radio take over. Sometimes Roon Radio plays for a while then stalls. I tend to use system output on the desktop Mac when I’m perhaps searching for new music, where I tend to listen to part of a track before saving it to a playlist to listen to in full later.
I’m not sure that there are any network issues at play, because even with my old hi fi setup when I used to use the old Apple Remote app to stream music from the Mac (which is in the room above the room where the hi fi is) there were never any connection issues/interruptions. My initial enthusiasm for Roon has been dampened by this development, have to say.
Thank you for that additional information, sorry to hear that the enthusiasm has diminished, I am hopeful that we can resolve this issue by pinpointing the behavior further though. You mentioned that you are using Qobuz streaming here, can you confirm if this behavior ever occurs when streaming local tracks?
What is the exact error message that you are presented with when the music stops playing? Can you let me know if you notice this issue occur on “System Output” and if so, can you note the exact local time + date in your country when it occurs?
I only paid for my lifetime membership on 22nd November. so I have not been using Roon for a very long time, but in that time I have mainly been listening to playlists I have saved within Roon, which are all Qobuz tracks; listening to playlists I saved within Qobuz that can be viewed via Roon (shared playlists); or I have been using Roon Radio, either by adding a single track to the queue and letting Roon Radio take over, or by using the Shuffle function when in a Genre/sub genre of music. I cannot say with 100% certainty, but as far as I know in the time I have been using Roon Radio it has never added a track from my Mac library for me to listen to, so I do not think the stalling of playback is connected to the streaming of local tracks.
I have not received any form of error message when the stalling occurs, the music just stops and the interface behaves as described in my initial message. As I mentioned in my second message I only use Roon on my Mac in System Output mode when browsing for new music to add to my playlists, and I have not experienced stalling of playback when I have been doing so. I live in Scotland, UK, so we’re on GMT, and I am a retired individual who listens to music throughout the day and, regrettably, the stalling issue is not limited to a particular time. I noticed after my initial message that another user added to the discussion chain and said that he was experiencing the exact same problem, so I guess it’s not just me. I am using Virgin Media broadband with reliably fast speeds, and when I listen to internet radio using Linn Kazoo or stream an HD movie from iTunes there have never been any issues with the listening or viewing experience. Anything else I can share with you let me know, but I’m not sure what else I can tell you.
I’d like to take a look at diagnostics from your Core next time this issue occurs. If you notice this behavior occur on System Output or on the Linn zone, please note the exact local time + date in your country of the occurrence and let me know this info here. After getting this info I can enable diagnostics mode and take a look for any additional clues in the logs, thanks!
I’ll be sure to let you know next time it happens and pass on the details. Typically, it has been fine since I contacted you with the initial concern, and long may it remain so, but if the issue returns I will contact you promptly. Thanks for your assistance so far.
Thanks for letting me know that timestamp. I have activated diagnostics mode for you PC and what this action does is automatically upload a set of logs to our servers for analysis.
I do see the timestamp you mentioned and it appears that the buffer is not being filled in time, leading to this issue. Let’s proceed as follows:
Can you try connecting the Mac via Ethernet to see if the behavior is the same?
I noticed this issue only occurring for the Linn zone.
Can you check to make sure that the firmware on your DAC is up-to date?
Just so that you are aware, I have previously seen reports that ISP-provided equipment is not very reliable, as also mentioned in our Networking Best Practices Guide. I can’t say for sure if this is indeed the root cause of the behavior, but if you have another consumer-grade router that you can temporarily replace the ISP one with, it would be interesting to know if the same behavior occurs.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the above, thanks!
Regarding your message:
‘buffer is not being filled in time’. Sorry, I’m not the most tech savvy. Does mean that the data required to play the track is not being supplied quick enough? I’m sorry, perhaps my understanding of how Roon interacts with my network is flawed, but when in the Linn Zone, is Roon simply not giving the DAC instructions to play certain tracks streamed directly from Qobuz? Is this not essentially what Linn Kazoo does also when I am streaming? There are no interruptions whatsoever on Linn Kazoo when I stream music from Qobuz, so why should I be experiencing them on Roon when the task being performed is basically the same? The iPad controlling Roon is about six feet away from both router and DAC, and my frequently tested broadband speeds are very good, which is the main reason I switched to Virgin, and the DAC is connected to the router with a very high quality ethernet cable, so once again I am at a loss as to why the ‘buffer is not being filled in time’, but as I have explained my knowledge is somewhat limited.
Point 1 - Connecting the Mac via ethernet is not really an option, as it resides in the room directly above the router, but once again, I have had no buffering issues over the many years I have had this arrangement, even when I was a BT Internet customer and their broadband speeds were a bit up and down.
Point 2 - I have not, as I previously explained, experienced this stalling issue when on System Output. I often listen to music on the Mac upstairs when working on the computer and there has been no skipping when playing via System Output. I even have an old Mac in the attic which I use for certain tasks, so it is essentially two floors above the router, and I have no connectivity issues at all with it.
Point 3 - All software for Linn Kazoo and Linn Konfig are up to date.
Point 4 - I see no reason to purchase another router when the one I have been supplied with by Virgin is their most up to date router and it seems to perform perfectly well, except for the issue I have brought to your attention of course.
In addition to the comments in my last post, last night I noticed that there were times when the music was playing perfectly well, but the associated visuals would freeze, which is of course frustrating.
The issue was:
Play Track 1 in the queue, screen details seem to freeze, but music plays as normal and Track 2 in the queue commences at the end of track 1, ie music playback is not interrupted. While Track 2 is playing, screen is still stuck on the visuals for Track 1, and time progress slider is stalled where it stopped during Track 1. If you try and advance the track using the ‘forward’ icon Track 2 jumps to Track 3, with imagery and time slider for Track 3 visible and working, but of course I have had to sacrifice the last portion of Track 2 to try and get things moving again.
My point is, if the music is playing normally, and the time progress facility is freezing/artist-related visuals are getting stuck, why would that be? Last night I even played one of the tracks where the screen had got frozen on Roon using Linn Kazoo instead and there were no issues at all. While the track was playing on Linn Kazoo I navigated round different menus within the app and there were no issues with stalling/screen freezing etc. I only wish that Roon behaved more like Linn Kazoo, but it would seem that I have shelled out 699 bucks to find out that, unfortunately, it doesn’t. You have a frustrated and disappointed customer here.
This means that Roon is not able to download the data fast enough from Qobuz’s servers.
Roon and the Kazoo app work a bit differently and may not use the same methods to deliver the audio files.
I asked this again because you mentioned that you haven’t had a chance to test System Output extensively and if you by any chance had further information regarding this aspect.
I understand that it is not a permanent solution, but it would really help us eliminate the WiFi from the equation as being a variable in this issue.
How have you been streaming Roon Content to your Linn zone? Have you tried using Airplay streaming to the DSM yet? I wonder if this exhibits the same behavior.
I understand that you are a bit frustrated here and apologies for that, but the only way that we can proceed in narrowing down the issue is if we start eliminating some variables, specifically trying the Core connected via Ethernet and if Airplay to the Linn zone experiences the same behavior.
Do let me know if you can run these tests as it would help clarify the error state. Thank you.
I use my Apple TV box, controlled by my phone or Apple TV remote, to stream HD movies via WiFi. No issues at all with buffering.
I can watch 4K channels on my TV with the TV connected to the Virgin Tivo box via HDMI cable and the box connected to the router via ethernet. No issues at all with buffering.
I have occasionally streamed music from the iTunes library on my phone to the DAC via airplay. No issues at all with buffering.
If I use the Qobuz desktop app on my Mac to stream music to the DAC from upstairs it does do perfectly while allowing me to view all related artist info/visuals, and the time progress slider works fine also. No issues at all with buffering.
In a nutshell, all of the apps on all of the devices/computers I possess which I use to stream high resolution music and high definition movies work perfectly over my WiFi network regardless of where I am in the house. Except…? Yup, you’ve guessed it. Roon.
Regarding connecting the Mac to the router via ethernet, I need my system to work with the current setup, and it is not an option to connect the Mac to the router permanently, as it is in a study and both my wife and I work on it at different times. If I was to cart it downstairs and connect it to the router via ethernet for a trial period, even if I found that there were no playback issues I wouldn’t be able to keep it in that position permanently for both aesthetic and practical reasons. We have WiFi so we don’t have to connect everything by cables, do we not?
I like what Roon does very much, but I would expect an app that cost as much as it does to perform over a WiFi network in a small house like mine every bit as well as other apps, some subscription some free, that perform similar or identical tasks perfectly In this environment. That fact that it does not is disappointing and frustrating in equal measure, and I feel that while you have tried to assist me I, my enjoyment of your app remains somewhat limited.
I’m going to reach out to our technical team regarding the logs gathered from your Core to see if they can provide some additional feedback. I understand that it might not be the most convenient nor a permanent solution, but for us to be able to narrow down the reasons why the system is not working as expected some physical troubleshooting will be necessary.
I will let you know once I have consulted with the technical team to see if there is anything we can do to diagnose this issue further but if you wish to help expedite the troubleshooting process, knowing if the Core connected via Ethernet displays the same behavior would be a very helpful data point.
I spoke to the technical team regarding this behavior and we’ve enabled some additional diagnostics tools for your account and would like to gather some more diagnostics for when this issue occurs.
When you return home after the leave, can I please ask that you try to reproduce this behavior when playing only local content, either by playing multiple local albums or by creating a long playlist that contains only local content.
If there are issues, please note the exact local time + date of the occurrence, as well as which track displayed the behavior. Thanks!
Using Ethernet in a system will generally give you the best stability, so if you are willing to try using Etherent as a temporary test it would be a good data point, otherwise you can run this test as the setup is currently configured and that would provide the additional debugging information as well.