Playlists: painfully slow loading

[Philipp_Schaefer]

Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

Innuos Zenith MK2, latest system version 1.4.3, 1TB SSD (60% full), Roon Core 1.7 (Build 537). Database manages 52k songs / 4K albums (1k local storage).
Core connects to Tidal and Qobuz.

Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)

100MBit Internet via Fritzbox 7490 (DSL Router / WiFi Mesh Master)

Core is connected via Ethernet cable to Mesh slave (a Fritz WLAN Repeater 1750E, good WiFi connection).

Endpoint/Streamer is connected to Router via Ethernet cable (EtherRegen)

Audio Devices (Specify what device you’re using and its connection type - USB/HDMI/etc.)

Network Player/Streamer is a LUMIN U1 Mini which feeds a Matrix X-SPDIF 2 via USB. The Matrix feeds a PS Audio DirectStream DAC via HDMI (I2S).

Roon Remotes are an iPhone X, MacBook Pro (2017) and an iPad Air (mobiles are still on build 356, as the new version is not available in Germany yet).

Description Of Issue

My main listening is done via accessing 81 playlists in Roon (with 10 to 100 songs, on average 40 tracks) with my iPhone X. The loading of Playlist was never fast, but after the last two builds it slowed down to an unacceptable “speed”. It takes 20 to 160 seconds to initially load a list.

Once loaded going back and forth the list is loaded in a second from the cache. But after loading another list or going to an album and then back, that cache seems not to be used anymore and it takes ages again to display the list content.

Sometimes everything is OK for half an hour. Then it’s super slow again. It feels random. And that’s the last thing I can deal with.

Is there a known problem with how lists are stored / read? Is there a setting I can improve?

It’s really a big pain, as all the fun is in browsing and starting music, not waiting for a screen to show something.

Btw: the screen does not even load the spinner, instead a white box where the animation should be.

And: Also “Discover” sometimes takes a very long time to load. Maybe it’s related?

[ged_hickman1]

The combination of Discover issue and the playlists sounds like you have an internal network problem.
As an example 23k playlist loads in 4 seconds.

[Philipp_Schaefer]

Loading 52.000 tracks needs only 1-2 seconds on my iPhone. But a list with 7 songs 10 seconds… I doubt it’s a network issue. Feels like an index/database thing…
But if it is one - how to test that?

[ged_hickman1]

In other threads the discovery problem had almost always been a network issue.
If you could temporarily plug your core directly into your internet router or an unmanaged switch attached to the router. Switch off the mesh slaves and see if speeds improve.
If it’s too much hassle proper support might have other suggestions.

[Philipp_Schaefer]

Thanks a lot @ged_hickman1

I had my core wired for two years. Just “unwired” it some days ago. Yes, that might cause it to be a bit slower. Still I can stream DSD 128 without dropouts and display 50k songs in no time. But it takes a minute to fill a list with 10 thumbnails? I think the WiFi connection brings a design issue into focus. I’d like to have @support take a look into it and understand if this a known flaw in the implementation / indexing / querying? Or if I can change any option to get decent performance.

[ged_hickman1]

What’s your memory for photos artwork set to?

[Philipp_Schaefer]

It was 512 MB. I changed it to 2048 MB now. Thanks. I’ll give it a try and report back.

[Philipp_Schaefer]

The bigger memory for artwork improved things. Roon still reloads lists almost always - and it takes eg. 8 seconds for a list of 60 tracks. This is much better. Still, from a UX perspective, way to slow.

My questions remain open. Thanks for looking into it.

[Philipp_Schaefer]

@dylan Sorry to bother you, hope it‘s ok to notify you directly. Just not sure how to get a response from @support on this issue (slow loading of playlists).
Yes, it’s not a blocker, so no hurry needed.

I just would love to understand if you/ the developers are aware of this issue and if there might be a fix in the future (or if I do something wrong).
Thanks a lot - and keep up the great work.

[dylan (Dylan Caudill)]

Hi @Philipp_Schaefer,

Does this issue occur if you use a different remote besides the iPhone?

[Philipp_Schaefer]

Dylan, thanks a lot for looking into it – very appreciated.

Good guess from your side - no, the performance of the loading of playlist is fast and acceptable (under 1 second, feels instant) on the two other “remotes” I could test it on (both also on Roon 1.7, build 537):

1. iPad Pro (9,7), iOS 13.3.1
2. MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017) MacOS 10.15.4, 16GB RAM

One thing that would enhance the user experience, even when the search itself does not get faster, would be to instantly display the animated roon logo (today it only shows that static white square as a placeholder, as it seems unable to load that image) – nothing moves and indicates that Roon is working.

We know from research that displaying activity is the most important aspect of user acceptance for waiting times. A quick fix there would certainly help / ease the pain.

Still, there’s that difference in performance in the iPhone app implementation (the phone used is an iPhone X on iOS 13.4.1) vs. e.g. the iPad. It would be interesting to understand what the technical differences in retrieving and displaying playlist on an iPad and iPhone are and if there is a fix or work around possible.

Again - thanks for getting back to me.

[ged_hickman1]

I hadn’t noticed the white square when we were pinging before. That’s interesting as on my Android phone when waiting for a big playlist I instantly get the swimming fish.

[Philipp_Schaefer]

Lucky you, let it swim and sing!

[ged_hickman1]

I wasn’t bragging !
What I meant by it is that there might be some internal delay in the app if it can’t even show the wait symbol.