Please explain why ROON stopped mid play [Solved - networking configuration]

Roon Core Machine

ROCK v 1.8 (build 831) running on Intel NUC d54250WYKH, Intel Core i5-4250U, 16GB RAM, 64GB boot SSD, 480GB music SSD

Networking Gear & Setup Details

Broadband via BT Smart Hub 2, download speed 36.978 Mbs, upload 7.242 Mbs
That connects by CAT5e ethernet cable to a Netgear GS324 24 Port Gigabit Switch.
Connected by CAT5e ethernet cable to one port of the Netgear GS324 is an Apple Time capsule.
The Intel NUC is connected by CAT6 ethernet cable to one of the ethernet ports on the Time Capsule

Connected Audio Devices

Device 1) name “Kitchen” mac mini 2011 2.3GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i5, 8GB RAM, 1TB SSD running macOS Catalina v10.15.7 and ROON v 1.8 (build 831), connected by CAT5e cable to one of the ports on the Apple Time Capsule
Device 2) name “Adrian’s Office” Mac Pro (Late 2013) 3.5 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon E5, 64GB RAM, 512GB SSD running macOS Big Sur v 11.6, connected by CAT5e cable to a port on the Netgear GS324

There are other ROON devices connected to the network but they are not in the group with Device 1 and 2. They are not actually playing anything.

Number of Tracks in Library

13269 tracks

Description of Issue

When playing internet radio the system will occasionally randomly stop. A few times I have seen a message pop up saying something like “The station is not available or has changed its address”. But it doesn’t stay there long enough to get a screenshot.
Press the Play button and the radio station starts playing again.
It happens if I am playing a group or just an individual endpoint
Here is the section of the ROON Server log file just after it dropped out just now
10/20 11:38:14 Info: [Kitchen + Adrian’s Office] [zoneplayer] Playing: channel://icy%3a%2f%2fstream-mz.planetradio.co.uk%2fplanetrock.aac
10/20 11:38:14 Debug: [easyhttp] [39645] POST to https://internetradio.roonlabs.net/2/api/reporting/internetradioplayback/events?format=msgpack returned after 443 ms, status code: 200
10/20 11:38:14 Debug: [easyhttp] [39646] POST to https://internetradio.roonlabs.net/2/api/reporting/internetradioplayback/events?format=msgpack returned after 443 ms, status code: 200
10/20 11:38:15 Debug: [easyhttp] [39647] POST to https://internetradio.roonlabs.net/2/api/reporting/internetradioplayback/plays?format=msgpack returned after 416 ms, status code: 400
10/20 11:38:15 Debug: [easyhttp] [39648] POST to https://internetradio.roonlabs.net/2/api/reporting/internetradioplayback/plays?format=msgpack returned after 418 ms, status code: 200
10/20 11:38:17 Trace: Got ICY Stream Title [Me And My Guitar - Bernie Marsden]
10/20 11:38:17 Info: [Kitchen + Adrian’s Office] [zoneplayer] Open Result (Playing):Result[Status=Success]
10/20 11:38:17 Info: [Kitchen + Adrian’s Office] [zoneplayer] Aborting play because track changed
10/20 11:38:17 Warn: [streammediafile] error reading stream: Unable to read data from the transport connection: Software caused connection abort.
10/20 11:38:17 Info: [audio/env] [zoneplayer] All streams were disposed
10/20 11:38:22 Info: [stats] 23750mb Virtual, 1756mb Physical, 558mb Managed, 321 Handles, 91 Threads
10/20 11:38:37 Info: [stats] 23693mb Virtual, 1756mb Physical, 560mb Managed, 321 Handles, 86 Threads
10/20 11:38:52 Info: [stats] 23734mb Virtual, 1756mb Physical, 563mb Managed, 321 Handles, 89 Threads
10/20 11:39:07 Info: [stats] 23734mb Virtual, 1756mb Physical, 568mb Managed, 321 Handles, 89 Threads
10/20 11:39:22 Info: [stats] 23685mb Virtual, 1756mb Physical, 556mb Managed, 321 Handles, 81 Threads
10/20 11:39:37 Info: [stats] 23605mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 415mb Managed, 321 Handles, 74 Threads
10/20 11:39:52 Info: [stats] 23605mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 415mb Managed, 321 Handles, 71 Threads
10/20 11:40:07 Info: [stats] 23621mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 417mb Managed, 321 Handles, 77 Threads
10/20 11:40:22 Trace: [broker/accounts] [heartbeat] now=10/20/2021 11:40:22 nextauthrefresh=10/20/2021 12:26:18 nextmachineallocate=10/20/2021 14:25:22
10/20 11:40:22 Info: [stats] 23669mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 422mb Managed, 321 Handles, 83 Threads
10/20 11:40:37 Info: [stats] 23669mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 423mb Managed, 321 Handles, 83 Threads
10/20 11:40:52 Info: [stats] 23710mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 426mb Managed, 321 Handles, 88 Threads
10/20 11:41:07 Info: [stats] 23677mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 417mb Managed, 321 Handles, 80 Threads
10/20 11:41:22 Info: [stats] 23605mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 417mb Managed, 321 Handles, 71 Threads
10/20 11:41:37 Info: [stats] 23605mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 418mb Managed, 321 Handles, 74 Threads
10/20 11:41:52 Info: [stats] 23605mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 418mb Managed, 321 Handles, 71 Threads
10/20 11:42:07 Info: [stats] 23613mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 419mb Managed, 321 Handles, 76 Threads
10/20 11:42:22 Info: [stats] 23605mb Virtual, 1742mb Physical, 419mb Managed, 321 Handles, 71 Threads

I can see the it goes wrong at 10/20 11:38:17 but I don’t understand why :frowning:
Any ideas?
Thanks
Adrian

Check your DNS settings. Suggest using 1.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8

APE is not recommended by roon see the help pages under networking best practices

Hi wizardofoz,

Thanks for your suggestions.

I’ve spent some time finding out about DNS and discovered that my router is using a Primary DNS of 81.139.57.100 and Secondary of 81.139.57.100. This is a service provided by BT here in the UK. And it cannot be changed in the BT Smart Hub 2.

By APE do you mean AirPort Extreme? Which is of course the ethernet hub part of the Time Capsule.

By physically moving the Intel NUC close to the Netgear GS324 and some creative cabling behind furniture and round doorways, I’ve now got the NUC and the mac mini plugged directly into the Netgear GS324 eliminating the Time Capsule from the ROCK data path. It won’t pass the domestic tidiness test but will let me see if that solves the dropout problem!
Thanks
Adrian

Adrian from memory somewhere in the advanced settings you used to be able to override the DNS servers at least on the old BT Homehub. Quite possibly that has changed on the newer versions, but I do not have BT as a supplier anymore (though they did lay Gb cable in my street last week).

I did have some fun and games when I originally bought Roon, and I ended up turning off DHCP on my BT homehub and putting in on a Synology device. Roon does a lot of DNS queries and it is a common complaint that it needs to be able to move to a provider that can handle all the queries.

I ended up going with an Orbi Mesh to replace the BT hub and that became a modem and now I do the same with Virgin Media.

Most Mesh networks (Tri band at least) will let you plug Ethernet and run it back over a dedicated backhaul channel so you get Gb like speeds over the Mesh networks and can have a couple of central points in the house.

Hi Michael,
I guess that all makes sense if you are running the ROON system over WiFi. All the computers in my system are hard wired ethernet.
We do use a BT mini Whole Home WiFi system for mobile devices, but none of them are used for doing anything in ROON except occasionally being a remote controller.

The system has just stopped again. This is the ROON Server log this time

10/20 15:13:00 Trace: [Kitchen] [LowQuality, 24/44 AAC => 24/44] [PLAYING @ 48:30] Takin’ Care Of Business - Bachman Turner Overdrive
10/20 15:13:00 Trace: [Adrian’s Office] [LowQuality, 24/44 AAC => 24/44] [PLAYING @ 48:30] Takin’ Care Of Business - Bachman Turner Overdrive
10/20 15:13:02 Trace: [Built-in Digital Output] [raatclient] GOT [1181] {“samples”:11682,“status”:“Dropout”}
10/20 15:13:02 Trace: [Built-in Output] [raatclient] GOT [12] {“status”:“Dropout”,“samples”:15544}
10/20 15:13:02 Trace: [Built-in Digital Output] [raatclient] GOT [1181] {“samples”:22050,“status”:“Dropout”}
10/20 15:13:02 Trace: [Built-in Output] [raatclient] GOT [12] {“status”:“Dropout”,“samples”:22050}
10/20 15:13:03 Trace: [Built-in Digital Output] [raatclient] GOT [1181] {“samples”:22049,“status”:“Dropout”}
10/20 15:13:03 Trace: [Built-in Output] [raatclient] GOT [12] {“status”:“Dropout”,“samples”:22050}
10/20 15:13:03 Trace: [Built-in Digital Output] [raatclient] GOT [1181] {“samples”:22049,“status”:“Dropout”}
10/20 15:13:03 Trace: [Built-in Output] [raatclient] GOT [12] {“status”:“Dropout”,“samples”:22050}
10/20 15:13:04 Trace: [Built-in Digital Output] [raatclient] GOT [1181] {“samples”:24255,“status”:“Dropout”}
10/20 15:13:04 Trace: [Built-in Output] [raatclient] GOT [12] {“status”:“Dropout”,“samples”:22050}
10/20 15:13:04 Trace: [Built-in Digital Output] [raatclient] GOT [1181] {“samples”:22050,“status”:“Dropout”}
10/20 15:13:04 Trace: [Built-in Output] [raatclient] GOT [12] {“status”:“Dropout”,“samples”:24255}
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Built-in Digital Output] [raatclient] GOT [1181] {“samples”:22049,“status”:“Dropout”}
10/20 15:13:05 Warn: [Kitchen + Adrian’s Office] [zoneplayer/raat] Too many dropouts (>3s dropped out in the last 30s). Killing stream
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Kitchen + Adrian’s Office] [zoneplayer/raat] too many dropouts. stopping stream
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Kitchen] [LowQuality, 24/44 AAC => 24/44] [PLAYING @ 48:31] Takin’ Care Of Business - Bachman Turner Overdrive
10/20 15:13:05 Info: [Kitchen + Adrian’s Office] [zoneplayer] advance didn’t change the track. returning short read
10/20 15:13:05 Info: [audio/env] [zoneplayer → stream] All streams were disposed
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Kitchen + Adrian’s Office] [zoneplayer/raat] Endpoint Built-in Output State Changed: Playing => Prepared
10/20 15:13:05 Info: [audio/env] [zoneplayer → stream → endpoint] All streams were disposed
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Built-in Output] [raatclient] SENT [14]{“request”:“end_stream”}
10/20 15:13:05 Info: [audio/env] [zoneplayer → stream → endpoint] All streams were disposed
10/20 15:13:05 Warn: [zone Built-in Output + Adrian’s Office] Track Stopped Due to Slow Media
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: Attempting to play channel URL: icy://stream-mz.planetradio.co.uk/planetrock.aac
10/20 15:13:05 Warn: [streammediafile] error reading stream: Unable to read data from the transport connection: Software caused connection abort.
10/20 15:13:05 Info: [zone Built-in Output + Adrian’s Office] OnPlayFeedback StoppedEndOfMediaUnnatural
10/20 15:13:05 Info: [zone Built-in Output + Adrian’s Office] OnPlayFeedback Stopped
10/20 15:13:05 Info: [zone Built-in Output + Adrian’s Office] Canceling Pending Sleep
10/20 15:13:05 Info: [zone Built-in Output + Adrian’s Office] Canceling Pending Sleep
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Kitchen] [LowQuality, 24/44 AAC => 24/44] [STOPPED @ 0:00] Takin’ Care Of Business - Bachman Turner Overdrive
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Adrian’s Office] [LowQuality, 24/44 AAC => 24/44] [STOPPED @ 0:00] Takin’ Care Of Business - Bachman Turner Overdrive
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Built-in Output] [raatclient] GOT [12] {“status”:“Ended”}
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Built-in Output] [raatclient] GOT [14] {“status”:“Success”}
10/20 15:13:05 Info: [audio/env] [zoneplayer] All streams were disposed
10/20 15:13:05 Debug: [raat/tcpaudiosource] disconnecting
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Kitchen + Adrian’s Office] [zoneplayer/raat] Endpoint Built-in Digital Output State Changed: Playing => Prepared
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Built-in Digital Output] [raatclient] SENT [2621]{“request”:“end_stream”}
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Built-in Digital Output] [raatclient] GOT [1181] {“status”:“Ended”}
10/20 15:13:05 Trace: [Built-in Digital Output] [raatclient] GOT [2621] {“status”:“Success”}
10/20 15:13:05 Debug: [raat/tcpaudiosource] disconnecting
10/20 15:13:05 Info: sleep 101ms after flush
10/20 15:13:05 Info: [Kitchen + Adrian’s Office] [zoneplayer] Playing: channel://icy%3a%2f%2fstream-mz.planetradio.co.uk%2fplanetrock.aac
10/20 15:13:05 Debug: [easyhttp] [131] POST to https://internetradio.roonlabs.net/2/api/reporting/internetradioplayback/events?format=msgpack returned after 448 ms, status code: 200
10/20 15:13:05 Debug: [easyhttp] [130] POST to https://internetradio.roonlabs.net/2/api/reporting/internetradioplayback/events?format=msgpack returned after 450 ms, status code: 200
10/20 15:13:06 Debug: [easyhttp] [132] POST to https://internetradio.roonlabs.net/2/api/reporting/internetradioplayback/plays?format=msgpack returned after 419 ms, status code: 400
10/20 15:13:06 Debug: [easyhttp] [133] POST to https://internetradio.roonlabs.net/2/api/reporting/internetradioplayback/plays?format=msgpack returned after 424 ms, status code: 200
10/20 15:13:06 Trace: Got ICY Stream Title [Takin’ Care Of Business - Bachman Turner Overdrive]
10/20 15:13:06 Info: [Kitchen + Adrian’s Office] [zoneplayer] Open Result (Playing):Result[Status=Success]
10/20 15:13:06 Info: [Kitchen + Adrian’s Office] [zoneplayer] Aborting play because track changed
10/20 15:13:06 Warn: [streammediafile] error reading stream: Unable to read data from the transport connection: Software caused connection abort.
10/20 15:13:06 Info: [audio/env] [zoneplayer] All streams were disposed
10/20 15:13:13 Info: [stats] 23330mb Virtual, 1394mb Physical, 329mb Managed, 292 Handles, 75 Threads
10/20 15:13:28 Info: [stats] 23273mb Virtual, 1394mb Physical, 329mb Managed, 292 Handles, 70 Threads
10/20 15:13:43 Info: [stats] 23273mb Virtual, 1394mb Physical, 330mb Managed, 292 Handles, 68 Threads
10/20 15:13:58 Info: [stats] 23273mb Virtual, 1363mb Physical, 221mb Managed, 291 Handles, 71 Threads
10/20 15:14:13 Info: [stats] 23273mb Virtual, 1363mb Physical, 221mb Managed, 291 Handles, 68 Threads

Seems that there are a lot of dropouts to the Adrian’s Office endpoint. Is it saying that there are dropouts between the ROON Core and Adrian’s Office or is it saying that the incoming street to the ROON Core is dropping out?
Thanks

Adrian I don’t work for Roon, just trying to point a couple of ways of overriding DNS which is a common issue. My solution was used to give me multiple Ethernet connected areas where Ethernet runs were not possible to to WAF issues.

If it drops out it usually means that Roon cannot get a fast enough link to transfer data between the different parts of your network. It looks like it has struggled to get the information between the different parts of your network.

Hopefully Roon will be able to turn on enhanced logging for you so you get a lot more information in the log files for review. Then they will be able to point you in the direction so worth reviewing what switches you have and how your zones are all connected to what.

But generally the struggle would between Roon Core and endpoint, but if playing from the Tidal/Qobuz then that also comes into play.

Update.
The system has been streaming from Qobuz for 23hr 34min without any interruption. I haven’t yet tried the internet radio stations that were originally playing up. But I have discovered that our village broadband connection was playing up yesterday. Several people have told me they were also having problems. So maybe it was the external broadband. Or maybe it was the Apple Time Capsule.
I’ll try using the internet radio first. If that’s Ok then I’ll revert the wiring.

Update.
The system has now been streaming Planet Rock internet radio continuously for 24hr 35mins. All good.
So now it is time to revert the ethernet wiring to re-instate the Apple Time Capsule with its Airport Extreme hub.
I’m going to do this in 2 stages

  1. Reconnect Device 1) the mac mini endpoint to the Time Capsule
  2. If all good, then move the Intel NUC back onto the Time Capsule.
    I’ll let you know how it goes

Adrian coming to this a bit late but I thought Roon did not recommend using the Airport Extreme as it has known issues.

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So I’ve been told and the Network Guide says so as well. Just want to prove it for myself!

And of course I hadn’t originally realised that an Apple Time Capsule was basically an AirPort Extreme with a hard disk bolted in :slight_smile:

Yes I missed that in your original post as well.
It was only when I read a couple of responses back that I realised

Ok.
I’ve been through the steps above
Step 1 - Device 1) connected through the Apple Time Capsule hub. Worked perfectly. No dropouts for over 24 hours
Step 2 - moved the Intel NUC powered ROCK Core back to the Apple Time Capsule hub. Has now been running for 1 day 4 hours with no dropouts.

The conclusion is that all the dropout problems were caused by the external broadband feed to the house having problems.
The Intel NUC D54250WYK is Ok
The Apple Time Capsule hub (based on an AirPort Extreme) is OK
The only thing that was wrong was the external broadband connection to the premise.

My recommendation from this would be to make the RoonServer logs a bit more explicit about the detected problem. There was nothing in there that suggested to me that the dropouts were in the incoming connection. They all implied that it was the connection between the various computers making up the Roon system.

Hey ho, technology, who’d have it?!:scream:

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Further update.
It worked well for a couple of days. Then I added a 3rd endpoint into the group. Worked OK for a while then I started getting dropouts again.
The 3rd endpoint is a 2009 mac mini Core 2 Duo 2.26GHz, let’s call this Device 3). The Roon Server log was giving the IP address of the 2009 mac mini as the one that seemed to be slow responding.
I reverted the connection for the Intel NUC ROCK Core back to direct to the Netgear GS324. Dropouts persisted.
The 2009 mac mini is pretty slow by todays standards so I’ve replaced it with another Intel NUC D54250WYKH. As far as I can see from published processing capability, this i5 NUC should be comparable to the present i3 based ROON Nucleus. But still got dropouts.
I’ve just reverted the other mac mini, Device 2), back to directly connected to the Netgear GS324. Its been running 15 minutes now!!!

So a question about the Apple Airport Extreme issue. Is it a problem having one connected to the network even if the ROON devices are not connected through it? Or is it just a problem sending the ROON data through the APE?

If the problems persist I’ll try disconnecting all my Time Capsules; not good as they are half my backup facility :frowning:

Thanks for any input

Hey @Adrian_Berry

We’re sorry that you’re running into some problems here. From looking at the log shots you’ve posted these seem to be network related. I think you made an essential discovery when you pulled the Airport Extreme out of the mix and had better results.

Please see this quote from our article on Networking Best Practices.

Finally, we strongly recommend against using Apple network devices such as the Apple Airport Extreme and Airport Express (note: it’s fine to use the Airport Express as an Airplay device). To ensure the best performance, we recommend against using these devices.

We encourage you to find a work around that takes this device out of the mix. Additionally, some of the devices you describe here are under spec. Attempting to use these devices in tandem or as grouped zones is only likely to cause you problems.

Please take another look at the networking article that @wizardofoz posted. I think the answer to your troubles is there.

Hi Jamie,
Thanks for your input.
I read the networking article as soon as Profile - wizardofoz - Roon Labs Community posted.
The Airport Extreme issue is interesting. I have not been able to find any information saying what is actually wrong with the Airport Extreme. There is nothing to say if the problems are experienced when using it as a WiFi hub or as a hardwired network switch. As an engineer, I hate it when people say “just don’t” without explaining why! And what I have is actually a Time Capsule, but people say its the same connectivity as an Airport Extreme.
The tests I’ve done do show that the Intel NUC D54250 used as a ROCK Core is good for 2 grouped endpoints but not 3. But it is Ok to use as an endpoint.
Similarly the Apple 2009 mac mini is not up to being used as a grouped endpoint.

Which is interesting as I understood that the core does all the work and just streams to the endpoints. So not sure why the endpoints are more critical when in a group.

As it stands at the moment, I have -
the Roon Core running on a 2019 iMac i5 which is also used as an endpoint
A Intel NUC D54250 as an endpoint

These are both directly wired to a Netgear GS234 Gigabit switch.

The other endpoints are -
A mid 2011 Apple mac mini connected hardwired through the gigabit network switch in the Apple Time Capsule and onto the Netgear GS234.
A late 2013 mac pro connected hardwired through the gigabit network switch in the BT Home Hub 2 (my broadband hub and router) and onto the Netgear GS234.

So the whole network is hardwired, some admittedly through 2 steps, and has been running with the 4 endpoints in a group for well over 24 hours without problems.

So my conclusion is that the main problem was some of the devices being underpowered for what I was trying to use them for. I’m not seeing a problem using the hardwired ethernet hub in the Apple Time Capsule.

Issue with Apple tend to be when used as wirelessly connected repeaters and as AP’s. they just seem to have a lot of issues. I dumped my network of wired backhauled LAN connected APE’s a few years ago now and never looked back - running all Unifi kit now and very happy. over 50 devices typically on my network, and often more if I am testing things too.

network map is generated by the Unifi controller software snd can display right down to the endpoint devices - as per this partial shot

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Ok, that is consistent with my not seeing problems using the Time Capsule as a simple hub. The WiFi is turned off.