Problems with Roon and iPad

Support
1

@support

I am running version 1.4 (build 310) stable (64 bit) of Roon. I have Windows Professional 7 (64 bit). The computer is a Lenovo ThinkPad. It has an Intel Core i-5 - 4200M CPU @2.5 GHz w/ 8gb of RAM My music files are on a Western Digital 2 terabyte external hard drive. I am using Roon Remote on my IPad running iOS 11.3.1. I have about 50,000 tracks, the majority of which are from Tidal. The zone I am using to play through my stereo is through a Meridian MC200 (Sooloos). I am using the remote over my home WiFi network. The router provided by my ISP (Telus) is connected by ethernet cable to an Apple Extreme and it is plugged into an electrical outlet with a D-Link PowerLine AV cable. The other cable is plugged into the Lenovo.

I have several problems that have been occurring over the last month and a half:

  1. Whenever the iPad goes to sleep (after 15 minutes or so), when I activate it, Roon loses the connection and the music stops. After the connection is restored the music will start again in most instances. This does not happen with my Sooloos app and it did not use to happen with Roon. I will sometimes use my iPad as a zone for listening with Bluetooth headphones and this problem does not happen with that zone. This problem happens with Tidal tracks as well as flac files from my computer.

  2. Sometimes the music just stops on its own and I have to go to the IPad and push play again.

  3. Sometimes the audio settings will change without warning so that I can only choose a zone that is either connected to the core or a zone that is networked. This happens with both the remote app on the IPad and with the desktop version as well. Sometimes, if I leave it for a few minutes, the other options will appear and sometimes I have to close and re-open the desktop version

  4. On numerous occasions, once one of the other problems have manifested, I will push play, the sound indicator next to the song title is active, but there is no sound and the track timer does not move. It appears that the only way to rectify that problem is to close the desk top application and re-open it.

I tried deleting the app from my IPad and then re-downloading it, but that did not do anything. I did move my computer to another room and that coincided with the problem. However I moved it back 2 weeks later, but the problems have persisted.

Do you have any suggestions?

Bill Rowe

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Hi @William_Rowe ----- Thank you for the report and sharing these observations you have made with us. The Feedback is very appreciated!

Moving forward, to help aide in our evaluation of this behavior may I very kindly ask you for the following:

  1. You mentioned the following in your report:

    “Whenever the iPad goes to sleep (after 15 minutes or so), when I activate it, Roon loses the connection and the music stops. After the connection is restored the music will start again in most instances. This does not happen with my Sooloos app and it did not use to happen with Roon. I will sometimes use my iPad as a zone for listening with Bluetooth headphones and this problem does not happen with that zone. This problem happens with Tidal tracks as well as flac files from my computer.”

    " I did move my computer to another room and that coincided with the problem."

    • Being as this behavior was not occurring previously, besides moving the mentioned computer to another room, where there any other changes to your setup that you can think of?

    • Can you please provide some further insight into to this reconfiguration you had performed (i.e “moving the computer into another room”)? The more detail you can provide, the better.

  2. If I am understanding the above correctly, you are experiencing the playback issue(s) when you are trying to use the MC200 zone as you mentioned when you use the iPad + BT headphones there is no issue. How is the MC200 communicating with your network?

  3. Can you please verify that the device hosting your Roon core (i.e Lenovo ThinkPad) has an SSD installed in it for your Roon database as this is going to be one of our minimum requirements to run Roon.

-Eric

4

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the prompt response. I am not particularly computer savvy, so you will have to bear with me.

I cannot think of anything else that I changed when I moved the computer and when I moved it back I am pretty sure everything is as it was before. However, I did inadvertently disconnect the Western Digital external hard drive containing the music files. However, when I connected it again, there appeared to be no effect.

I moved everything, computer, monitor, printer, scanner and external hard drives to another floor as I was undergoing surgery and needed to stay on one floor for 2 weeks afterwards. To the best of my knowledge, I set everything up as it had been before. After the 2 weeks were up, I then moved the computer back down to my regular office and again set up everything as before.

The MC200 is connected by Ethernet cable to an Airport Express.

The Lenovo ThinkPad has a 500gb SSD. I note that the Roon database is located on the computer hard drive, but for some reason there is also a copy of it on the external hard drive containing the music files. I don’t know why I would have done that unless it was for back up purposes. I don’t know if that could be a problem.

Bill

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Hi @William_Rowe ---- It’s my pleasure to lend a hand and no worries about the level of computer knowledge, we will go slow and I will do my best to not overwhelm you with too much information all at once :wink:

Continuing forward…

Further Data Gathering:

  1. Could you first verify that I am conceptualizing the behavior with the MC200 zone correctly based on the “second question” from my previous post:

    If I am understanding the above correctly, you are experiencing the playback issue(s) when you are trying to use the MC200 zone as you mentioned when you use the iPad + BT headphones there is no issue. How is the MC200 communicating with your network?

  2. Just to verify, these are the only networking device you are currently implementing in your setup correct? If you are making use of anything else, please let me know.

    “The router provided by my ISP (Telus) is connected by ethernet cable to an Apple Extreme and it is plugged into an electrical outlet with a D-Link PowerLine AV cable. The other cable is plugged into the Lenovo.”

Troubleshooting:

  1. Since noticing this behavior have you tried not only rebooting the core machine but also any the mentioned networking hardware above?

  2. Have you confirmed that Sooloos is not running at the same time as Roon on any of your devices?

-Eric

6

Hi Eric,

Further Data Gathering:

  1. The MC200 is communicating with the network via an ethernet cable from the MC200 to an Apple Express.
    2, The only other device is the Airport Express mentioned above.

Troubleshooting:

  1. The only thing I have not rebooted is the MC200. I will try that and let you know if it makes a difference.
  2. Yes, if I use the Sooloos controller on my IPad, the Roon app will not work using the Sooloos zone. I am the only one in the household using Roon, so I am sure they are not both running at the same time.

Cheers, Bill

7

Thank you for the follow up @William_Rowe and providing the additional feedback, both are appreciated!

I wanted to touch base with you on the above and see if rebooting your MC200 + the Airport express have yielded any changes in behavior here. Let me know and we can continue the troubleshooting process from there :microscope:

-Eric

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Hi Eric,

Unfortunately, neither made any difference. I am still getting the lost connection message and the play interruption.

Cheers, Bill

9

Hi @William_Rowe ---- Thank you for touching base with me and my apologies for the delay.

Continuing forward, I would like to enable diagnostics on your account so I can have our team take a closer look into this behavior being experienced. However, before I enable this feature may I kindly ask you to please reproduce the issue and note the time of day in which the observation was made. Once I have a sense as to when the error occurs I will then enable the mentioned diagnostics.

-Eric

10

Hi Eric,

I just updated to version 1.5 and the situation is actually worse. Between 10:30 and 10:45 p.m. Pacific Time last night I triggered the problem 3 times. What is happening now is that the track appears to resume playing and the time runs but there is no sound for upwards of 30 seconds and then it comes back intermittently and then comes back completely. At least before, when it started again, it stayed playing.

Unfortunately, I now have another problem with the new version. I have a Mytek Brooklyn DAC connected t my system and up to now I had no problem playing MQA files. Now the DAC is not recognizing the MQA files and is playing them as standard FLAC files.

The message I am getting when I click on the Signal Path is the following:

Sooloos

Source - TIDAL FLAC 48kHz 24 bit 2 ch, MQA 96kHz

Unknown: authentication
MQA Studio 96Khz

Unknown: roon_core_decoder

Output
Meridian Streaming

This has something to do with the DAC or the Sooloos I suspect.

I noted that when I use the Sooloos app to play an MQA file the Brooklyn DAC recognizes that it is an MQA file.

I have a Meridian Explorer 2 USB DAC that I connect directly to my computer that I use when I am in my computer room. When I had the issue described above with my main system, I tested it out, but there was no problem. When I click on the Signal Path when playing directly from my desktop through the Explorer I get the following:

Meridian ASIO

Source
TIDAL FLAC 44.1 kHz 24 bit 2 ch, MQA 96 kHz

Authentication
MQA Studio 96 kHz

This PC
Roon Advanced Audio Transport

Meridian USB ASIO Driver
ASIO

Do you have any suggestions for this new issue? I think it is because Roon is doing the MQA decoding but I am not sure.

Cheers, Bill

12

Hello @William_Rowe,

Can you confirm for me that in the “device setup” screen for the Mytek Brooklyn zone, the “MQA Capabilities” are set to “Decoder and Renderer”?

-John

1 Like
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Hi @William_Rowe ---- Thank you for the follow up!

Now that I have the requested time frames (thank you again) I have enabled the mentioned diagnostics on your account. What this action will do is the next time that Roon is active on your core machine a diagnostics report containing a set of your Roon logs will automatically be generated/uploaded to our servers. I will keep an eye out for the upload and will touch base again once it has come in so you know we have it.

Additionally, @John is our in house gear expert, so please let me know how things pan out with the BK based on his suggestions above. Thanks @john!

-Eric

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Hi John,

Thanks for the tips. I don’t have a Mytek Brooklyn zone, only a Sooloos zone but making that change in the Sooloos zone seems to have done the trick. I will continue to monitor this, but I have a great sense of relief.

Cheers, Bill

15

Hi Eric,

John’s tip seems to have solved the MQA issue, for which I am very grateful. I used Roon tonight for an hour or so and the problem continues. However, I find if it starts playing without sound I can pause it and start it again and that gets it going.

Hopefully, the diagnostics will turn up something.

Cheers, Bill

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Hi @William_Rowe ---- Thank you for touching base with me, very pleased to hear that John’s suggestion above has yielded a positive result.

I can confirm that the mentioned diagnostics report has been received and is now attache to your ticket for review by a member of the tech team. Once the team has completed their analysis of the report I will be sure to share their thoughts/findings with you in a timely manor. Your patience during this process is appreciated!

Additionally, I was re-reading through the thread and I wanted to propose another troubleshooting exercise here. We have seen issue with the Apple Extreme in the past as mentioned here by our CTO Brian and as such I want to be certain that this device isn’t causing the issue here with the MC200.

With the above in mind would you kindly verify for me what the experience is like if you mount the MC200 directly to your router with the Apple Extreme temporarily offline.

-Eric

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Hi Eric,

I am not confident taking the Airport Extreme out of the system for fear it may cause issues for the other devices connected to the network. However, I am going to get my IT person in next week to discuss the issue, among others, and see what he suggests as an alternative system. Do you have any recommendations for a router?

I don’t think the Airport Extreme would be the issue since I have been using it about 5 years and I never had the particular issue with Roon we are discussing until a short while ago, but it sounds like it is time for a change in any event.

Cheers, Bill

18

Thanks for touching base with me @William_Rowe, very appreciated!

I had an Airport extreme for awhile that I was using for troubleshooting/testing purposes and noticed that it would get into weird states on occasion, which would result in me having to perform a factor reset on the unit. So the proposed test in my previous was based off not only the information you read from our CTO Brian but also from personal experience.

In my most honest and humble opinion, I think your safest bet in terms of considering a new router would be to follow Brian’s guidelines in the post I provided above (i.e “The second best is a single 802.11ac router with a good reputation”). Additionally, I would also consider doing a quick search of the community site and see what other users are implementing in their setups. This will give you detailed insight into how certain devices perform compared to others.

-Eric

FYI: Still waiting to hear back from the team about the diagnostics report but as soon as they issue me with an update I will be certain to follow back up.

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Hi Eric,

Thanks for your response. I will investigate Brian’s suggestion of a mesh network. That definitely looks like the best way to go.

By the way, I continue to test the problem and although it still occurs, it is interesting that it is not happening each and every time, as it was.

Cheers, Bill

1 Like
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My pleasure @William_Rowe, always glad to try and help. Please do keep me updated on any new progress or observations you make with the MC200, and as mentioned, once the team shares their findings with me I will be sure to reach out with an update immediately.

-Eric

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Hi @William_Rowe ---- I wanted to check in with you and see how things were going with the mentioned testing.

Thanks!
-Eric

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Hi Eric,

Sorry for the delayed response, but I was away for a few weeks.

My tech said I had good wireless coverage and didn’t feel I needed to change anything. What is your recommendation for the best mesh system if I decide to go that route? Right now, I am doing a work around by changing the settings on my IPad so it does not go to sleep. I am still having the issue if I forget and go to another app on my IPad and then go back. Have you heard anything on your end?

Cheers, Bill