Recent slowing of Roon response time

Support
1

Roon Core Machine

Mainly a Win 11 headless server with 32Gb RAM, 250Gb Samsung NVMe and 10Tb WD Red running Roon Server. (Intel Core i5-11400)
Also using a NUC10i7FN* running Roon OS, same experience.

Networking Gear & Setup Details

Both servers hard wired, a mixture of WLAN and hard wired Pi’s. Asus AX58 router.

Connected Audio Devices

Both USB from Core, WLAN from router to Altair G1, hard wired via unmanaged switches

Number of Tracks in Library

around 180K tracks local, ca 300 albums on Qobuz

Description of Issue

Recently, since a few weeks back i am experiencing waiting and lag in my Roon interface. It seems to slow down the population of the “hints”-field when searching, when going to the “Home” screen (which is most frequently used view) and basically every time the content seem to rely on cloud based data.

I usually type the band name in the search field in full before the hints are populated, and when selecting one of the alternatives or pressing enter there are are once again a small delay before projecting the “full search results”-view or the Artist-view or such.

This is just a lag, and the results are showing, but there’s a delay and “the damned Roon-blimp” is showing it’s ugly face upon almost every manouvre in the Roon apps…

Everything is rebooted, and i have no other issues whatsoever streaming etc. And i can use mConnect/iPeng/Lightning DS on the same network and devices without any delays whatsoever.

It seems the Roon decision to move to the cloud isn’t backed up by the infrastructure needed?

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I seem to have read a few ‘can’t connect to Roon Search’ type posts recently. Experienced one of these last week myself. Can’t rule out local network or ISP issues of course but I had not seen this error ever before Roon 2.0.

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Hey @Mikael_Ollars,

Following up on this thread, can you please share a timestamp of when this issue occurs? Does this issue occur when streaming local content as well as content from Qobuz?

I’ll be on standby for your reply :+1:

5

Hi Ben!, thanks for getting back!

Please note, this is not a playback issue. It’s a user experience issue.

It is happening right now, 07:04 CET and have been happening since approximately late october/november.

Roon client starts immediately on the iPad Pro, and starts to populate the Home screen.
Roon blimp rears its ugly head for 1 second before populating New albums for you.

I scroll and visit Discover feature, and it is still a patchwork of events showing up and just as you start to get interest in a few of the items… The whole screen is rebuilt with other items… :wink:

When going to an album and clicking the artist name, the blimp is there again before “Popular tracks” is populated.

But i can select anything from local or Qobuz and playback is started almost immediately, never an issue with stability. It’s just the small wait times in the GUI that makes this a lesser experience than before.

But on the other hand, the latest release fixed the patchy scrolling on iPad, lots better again. (You’re not best in class, but at least not sent to the principal again)

I figured, trying with my Qobuz Account disabled, so i did. And yes things are snappier, but i loose all curated playlists (even if they are mainly populated by my local library) and lots of Roon augmented content.

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Hey @Mikael_Ollars,

Thank you for the breakdown! We will definitely look into this further. Does this behavior only happen on your iPad pro? Does this happen when you load up Arc?

If so, are you able to share the memory and RAM specs on the device? We’ll enable diagnostics on the iPad pro to take a closer look

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Basically, the behaviour is very similar on my older iPad 2018, it is a bit slower in general though.

When using Roon ARC i feel that the experience is similar, jumping to an Artist view shows the loading line pulsating for a second or two.
But my expectation on ARC is well met, it is an “away solution” that i accept as a less immediate experience.

However, the regular Roon app has been quicker and more agile previously.

Regarding the specs, the iPad Pro is a 128Gb 2020 12.9" and the smaller iPad is a 32G 9,7" 2018 model.
I see similar behaviour on my iPhone 14 Pro also, i think its 128Gb of storage.

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8

Hey @Mikael_Ollars,

Thanks for letting me know! As a next step, lets grab manual logs from the iPad to get a closer look into what might be going on. Please use the directions found here and send over a set of logs to our File Uploader.

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All done Ben!
I am pretty convinced this is not an issue with my network or the iPad, as the experience is similar even on iMac 21,5" and on my Win 11 based HP Elitebook 840G6.
Still, the iPad logs are uploaded as of now (few minutes ago).

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Hey @Mikael_Ollars,

Thanks for your patience during the holiday period. While we continue to investigate the logs you’ve sent over, lets see if a fresh database improves your experience. Steps to follow below:

  • Create a Backup of your current database
  • Exit out of Roon
  • Navigate to your Roon Database Location
  • Find the folder that says “Roon”
  • Rename the “Roon” folder to “Roon_old”
  • Reinstall the Roon App from our Downloads Page to generate a new Roon folder
  • Verify if the issue persists on a fresh database before restoring the backup

I’ll be on standby for your reply :pray:

12

You are suggesting that i throw away some three days of audio analysis and dozens of hours of library grooming (due to Roons sucky handling of box sets, and incomplete metadata sources)

If the purpose is to just check if this is a database error, i can simply use another Core.

Especially as i see the exact same thing on my alternate Cores (with unique databases)…

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Hey @Mikael_Ollars,

Sorry for any confusion here! If you save a back up of your current database (the first bullet point in my previous reply) then you won’t lose any of the work you’ve done to customize your library :+1:

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I did see that was your intention after my post! :wink:
Should i disable audio analysis after refreshing the DB? If not, i’ll have 3-5days of audio analysis to look forward to! :slight_smile:
(8Tb of media)

I feel we are looking at the wrong end of the stick though, as i have the “exact” same experience using my ROCK built on an NUC10i7 with 16Gb of DDR4 and a 250Gb Samsung 970 Pro m.2 NVMe & 8Tb Samsung 970 QVO SSD.

I also visited my friend today who is running an NUC8i3 with ROCK, controlling the setup with an iPad 2018. The behaviour is identical.
Animated blowfish Roon icon upon every return to the Home view, on every cloud based reccy section, on search (doing it’s best slow mo-interpretation)

I can go ahead with your recommended tests, but to be honest, its not MY gear that should be scrutinized, it is YOUR cloud services thats lagging…

Or is it expected to view the blowfish on any screen that utilize cloud data?

15

Performed the requested manouvres…

  • However, i am (as stated previously) running RoonServer, so thats the folder that was renamed.
  • I shut off background audio analysis.
  • After library identification (3 hours)
  • Check performance

Okaj, theres a slight improvement, which was noted in the last few days before also.

Have a look here:

Am i beeing to demanding here? I don’t want to see the blowfish at all (meaning immediate response), so maybe my library is growing too big? (180K tracks somewhere, only around 300 albums from Qobuz)

Edit: I restored the DB, and uploaded a similar video of my Cores performance with that one. Quite similar as can be seen.

To be honest, the issue is less now than it has been for the last two months or so. Is this due to some adjustments in the CDN network or Roon Cloud services?

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Hey @Mikael_Ollars,

Thanks for the above info! After taking your video back to our team, the overall consensus is that yes, it does appear to be slightly sluggish.

We reviewed your account again with a few extra eyes, and saw some weird network issues when streaming to the XDuoo endpoint, which uses an XMOS driver. We are seeing weirdness with that same driver/DAC combo recently in other threads, too. Can you clarifiy if this is endpoint-specific?

With that, we also came across clear network-based errors, please see below:

01/06 16:04:04 Warn: [easyhttp] [1617] Post https://accounts5.roonlabs.com/accounts/3/login web exception without response: Unable to connect to the remote server A socket operation was attempted to an unreachable host 34.148.110.116:443
01/06 16:04:04 Warn: [broker/accounts] failed to refresh account info: Result[Status=NetworkError]
01/06 16:04:05 Trace: [push2] exception thrown. restarting connection (An internal WebSocket error occurred. Please see the innerException, if present, for more details. )

Do you have any additional network security in place?

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Hi Ben!
The above quote is confusing? I don’t know which endpoint you are referring to here?
I have a maximum of 5 endpoints active (usually only one or two in use though) when dabbling with this:

  • My iPad Pro
  • Altair G1 (RAAT, WiFi connection)
  • Moon 430HAD (RAAT over Ethernet to Auralic Aries Mini → USB → Moon DAC Module)
  • SOtM sMS-200 Ultra → Denafrips Ares II (Ethernet, Squeezelite mode, not Roon)
  • Kök (An IKEA/Sonos device, so Sonos streaming on WiFi)

I do however have an Audiobyte Black Dragon connected on USB directly to the server, and i think that one has an XMOS USB interface. But, this device was not running at the time. (I have both the ASIO and WASAPI device mapped as audio devices)

The network issue from the logs, i have no explanation for. I do not run any other security software besides Windows Defender and my only router is the Asus Ax58.

I tried a tracert to the host mentioned, went fine:

Tracing route to 116.110.148.34.bc.googleusercontent.com [34.148.110.116]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms RT-AX58U-F240 [192.168.15.1]
2 6 ms 5 ms 5 ms 62.127.76.3
3 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms static-213-115-253-129.sme.telenor.se [213.115.253.129]
4 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms ti3163c360-ae24-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.15.74]
5 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms ti3001b400-ae3-0.ti.telenor.net [146.172.105.62]
6 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 209.85.175.193
7 118 ms 118 ms 118 ms 116.110.148.34.bc.googleusercontent.com [34.148.110.116]
Trace complete.

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Hey @Mikael_Ollars,

Thanks for the above info. After chatting with the team, we’re curious about a known setting, Adaptive QoS, within Asus routers that might be at play here:

If you could head into your Asus settings> QoS tab and share a screenshot. Also, disabling this feature would be a good way to test if it affects response time.

Can you confirm the firmware on the router is up to date? Do you have any other streaming services potentially taking up extra bandwidth? You may see other things at play under the QOS settings.

Here is more information : [Adaptive QoS] How to set up QoS? | Official Support | ASUS Global

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Adaptive QoS is turned Off, like everyother superfluous application.

image
image2025×1134 237 KB

(Every tab is in Off-state)

However, i did have Traffic Analyzer running, which was turned off and the router then rebooted. Latest firmware, no “funny stuff” going on, no VPN’s, no nothing.
Only setting enabled is a port forward rule for Roon ARC and IGMP Snooping.

If i disable my Qobuz Account, i also disable the reccy’s and New Albums for you and those features, but i get the experience i expect. I can’t seem to blame Qobuz though because their app is working fine separately, with excellent response.
It seems this is only affecting Roon.

I stream all of my TV also, or to be more specific, my missus does. 4K streaming to an Apple TV4, no issues as far as i can see. The video streams buffer before starting, but this is a behaviour that is constant.
Roons slowing down has been in effect since approximately november -22

Beside from Qobuz and TV, no other bandwidth intensive applications in use.
And thank you @benjamin , for the efforts! :slight_smile:

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22

Hey @Mikael_Ollars,

Thanks for giving that a try and for the additional info! To confirm, is your core hardwired directly to your primary router?

After digging into things a bit more, it would be helpful to get timestamps (date, time) of both when the lag occurs, as well as after qobuz is disabled.

With that, clearing your Cache may help as well. Steps to follow below:

  • Exit out of Roon
  • Find and open your Roon database
  • Navigate to Roon/Cache
  • Move the contents of the /Cache folder elsewhere, like your desktop
  • Try restarting Roon and verify if the issue still occurs

If you’re still running into lags after the above, can you test out changing your DNS to Google (8.8.8.8; 8.8.4.4) or Cloudflare (1.1.1.1/1.0.0.1)?

Lastly, if possible, do you have an all-in-one device you could temporarily test out as a core?

23

Hi Ben, and another thanks for not dropping this. I must say that you are suggesting the problem lies within my environment, but i am hell bent on your cloud services (or to be more specifik, your choice of CDN).

Stil, my main Core, the headless Win 11 machine running Roon Server x64, is hard wired to my router, the Asus RT-AX58U via an unmanaged Gb-switch from HP pro series ProLiant. The same setup has been in use for more than two years.

Anyways, logs should be possible to retrieve from this time stamp:
2023-01-12 08:08 CET (Stockholm)
Visiting Home, and browsing a bit here and there
08:10 - Disabling Qobuz, visiting Home screen and browsing a bit.
(Effect is immediate, no delays, i don’t the the blowfish at all)

08:11 Re-Activating Qobuz, clearing cache as per your instructions.
(Seems far fetched that this would be different to reinstalling the Core?)

08:16 Roon restarted, going to my Control (iPad Pro on 5Gz WLAN) to repeat my browsing.
Actually visiting Home screen was quicker. But going to any artist shows the blowfish before “Popular tracks” is displayed. And selecting Home from the hamburger menu again shows similar behaviour as before, blowfish… a second delay before “NRFY” is populated.

08:20 Dectivating Qobuz again, and visiting home page. Immediate response, but of course this is irrelevant as NRFY doesn’t show.
Visiting artist pages are also quicker, as “popular tracks” is replaced by something called “tracks in your library” or similar. There’s aminiscule delay before the editorial content is displayed nd differs a bit from where it’s sourced.
Still, Roon prides itself being the best experience that integrates ypur streaming service with my local lib, so i’ll enable Qobuz again.

I’ll be back with reports from a all-in-one Roon setup.

PS: I changed primary DNS to Google’s, which i don’t like and have never needed. The ISP’s here in Sweden have excellent DNS setups btw.
The result is similar to the behaviour before, timestamp on IPCONFIG /RENEW on the Core was something like 08:35
New browsing adventures at 08:40.

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I also guess there is a Qobuz integration problem causing performance issues. Maybe CDN based.