ROCK - Database Issue

I’m biking home from work now and will try to provide a full response early this evening. Long story short is that all my equipment is pretty new and has been working well. I have not experienced any power instability or outages that would raise my suspicion. I’ll try to dig deeper in a bit.

Oh, my number one question for right now is whether I can detach my USB harddrive from the NUC, plug into my MacBook Pro to check and see if the music stored there is still good. Obviously, my main concern is that my hard rive has failed and my music is gone. I have all my MP3s saved on my laptop as well, but there are around 20 lossless and high res albums that were only on that USB drive. Okay for me to check that?

Go ahead and turn off the NUC and do that, but let me reassure you – this is about the hard drive and database stored in the NUC, and this error doesn’t have anything to do with the media or content in your library.

I wouldn’t worry too much, but go ahead and check, and let us know how this is all going.

Looking forward to getting this working for you Brice!

I really appreciate your support. It’s a big reason why I pay for Roon and why I chose ROCK as my music server.

Okay I turned off my NUC and detached my USB hard drive. The good news is that the hard drive appears to be working just fine. Also, I was smarted than I thought I was by not keeping my lossless albums ONLY on that USB drive. I had them on my laptop too just in case. Okay so I haven’t lost any of my music, that’s a good start.

take us through the hardware and the database you’re experiencing this issue with. Are you running this on an SSD? Is all the hardware new? Any power cuts?
Here’s some info about my equipment. Really everything is new, especially the NUC, it’s SSD, and RAM. I got them all 3 months ago, brand new from Amazon. I have never noticed a power “cut” as you called it. What are the symptoms of a power cut? Does it happen super fast and might not be notable? As far as I know, nothing in my house has ever shut off all of a sudden…not within the last three months when I’ve had all this hardware running Roon. I keep all my electronics plugged into a Furhman power strip that has surge protection.

• Info on my NUC
o Intel BOXNUC7I3BNH NUC -
o Running ROCK on internal SSD: ZTC 128GB Armor 42mm M.2 NGFF 6G SSD Solid State Drive. Model ZTC-SM201-128G
o RAM: Crucial 8GB Single DDR4 2133 MT/s (PC4-17000) DR x8 SODIMM 260-Pin - CT8G4SFD8213
• Router is Netgear nighthawk r7000
o Interestingly, I just got an email today from Netgear saying “NETGEAR values the security of your network and data, so we released new firmware for your WiFi router to address security issues.” I don’t know if there was some relevant problem, but I’ve never received an email like that before.

Was the database ultimately restored?
As for my database, my experiencing of transferring my database from my MacBook pro to the NUC didn’t keep my Tidal and stored files arranged exactly the way I wanted, but I wouldn’t say the database failed or anything like that. It was most likely user error in that I created a new watched folder instead of editing the existing one. Something like that. I’m not too worried about it.

Now, I did make some changed on Saturday September 30. I wanted to go back and fix the aforementioned library kerfuffle by reverting back to my June 10 database (last backup before I transitioned to ROCK). I had that backup on my USB drive and but I thought I needed to find it on Dropbox to implement it in Roon to I tried copying the backup to DropBox. On my mid-2010 MacBook Pro which is not the greatest performer, copying that backup took nearly two hours. Near the end of the transfer, I was browsing the internet and I feel like my laptop couldn’t keep up with the processing demands. Some of the files were corrupted in the transfer so I was unable to use that backup in Dropbox. Roon told me it wouldn’t work. So I gave up and simply worked from my current Roon database and simply did some file cleanup where I edited my watched folder to no longer point to all my old MP3s but instead to a new folder just containing lossless files. So…ultimately I don’t think there’s much reason for the database to be corrupted because I’m still working off the same database I’ve been using since June 10. I haven’t reverted to anything else.

Do you have other backups?
I have a June 10 backup and a June 13 backup. I thought I had Roon setup to do automatic backups to Dropbox, but I don’t see anything more recent….ugh! I have egg on my face for that one. If I have to restore from a backup, will I have to choose one of those?

What do you have in this database that you’re hoping to preserve (meaning playlists created in Roon, play history, edits, etc).
I know some people do extensive tagging and metadata tomfoolery, but I don’t. Worst case scenario here is probably not that bad for me. 90% of my music library is Tidal albums and I don’t really change the metadata for that at all. I do sometimes “favorite” certain tracks on albums I’m less familiar with so I can play them down the road. I have created playlists in the past, but if I lose them, it’s fine. I mostly make playlists to just surface my recent favorite albums in the past month. I make new ones all the time. I do like to know which albums I have played the most and are thus my most dependable spins.

Has everything been working until this issue?
Yes, everything has been working normally until all of a sudden, I couldn’t open Roon the day I submitted the ticket. Notably, the only new thing I did that day was get a new Macbook in the mail and try to download Roon to it so I could use it as a shiny new remote to control playback from my NUC which was still handling core duty. It was when I was going through the process of trying to launch Roon on that computer that Roon stopped working everywhere. Now, the simple explanation is that new Macbook is the biggest variable so it must have something to do with this problem. But how? Is it coincidence? How is that process supposed to work? Does the new Macbook need to be set up from a Roon backup on Dropbox or does it just launch and shake hands with my network connected NUC and show me my library automatically?

The worst symptoms I’ve experienced were music occasionally dropping out for no reason, so I’d relaunch Roon remote and all would be fine. This didn’t happen too often. In trying to brainstorm other possible reasons for a hard drive problem, I posted these questions earlier today: Long term care for my NUC/ROCK Any worries there?

Lastly, I’ve had this annoying DIVX popup on my Macbook Pro for the last two years. Here is a screenshot image of it from Google Images. I think this is called Malware? I’ve tried to root it out multiple times, but even the articles I’ve read talk about how difficult it is to get rid of. Little pieces of it are found in kind of nooks and crannies of my computer files. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen any of it in my music files though. The USB drive I store my music on also has a separate folder containing a TimeMachine backup of my whole computer. Is it possible that DIVX malware infected my NUC? Thing is, that’s been a constant the entire year+ I’ve had Roon and I’ve been using this USB drive with that data on it for months without issue.

It finally occurred to me to contact the company DIVX and their support team promptly responded by acknowledging the popup as their legitimate software and instructed me how to remove it. So, it’s not Malware and I’m no longer concerned that it did any harm to my NUC. So unless you feel differently about it, we can strike that from the list of potential issues.

Hi @Brice_Lang ---- Thank you for your patience and the feedback! Having such detailed insight into the history of your Roon setup will definitely aide in our techs evaluation of your logs.

Moving forward, I would kindly like yo have you please perform the following:

  • Please access the NUC via the Web UI and stop RoonServer from running. 57 PM
    07 PM

  • Once RoonServer has been stopped, please access the Roon OS data directory.

  • Next re-name the “RoonServer” folder to “RoonServer_Old”.
    51 PM

  • Once the “RoonServer” folder has been re-named, please go back to Web UI and “start” the server again.

  • Connect to ROCK via one of your remote devices, log back in, and configure a new install.

  • Please let us know if you run into the same issue.

-Eric

How do I access the web UI?

And when you say configure a new install, do you mean going through the entire process I did when I first got my NUC? That took me hours and I needed to connect my NUC to a monitor and use usb keyboard and mouse which I’d have to grab from my office.

No, you won’t need to do any of that again. And actually, you can probably just follow @Eric’s instructions from this point forward:

You can find the URL for the web interface from Roon’s “Choose Your Core” screen, or from Settings > Setup. You just need to click “Configure RoonOS devices” and then click on the IP address of ROCK (192.168.1.108 in the screenshot below)

image

Let us know how it goes once you’ve followed Eric’s instructions above Brice!

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In short, it worked. I’m back up and running. I’ll respond later tonight or tomorrow with some thoughts and questions. Thank you for helping me out.


Well I got Roon working again. My tidal albums appeared, then I created a watched path to my usb drive. No previous path was not there to edit. Creating a new one caused the stored music to appear as new music in my Roon library, which is not ideal, but fine.

My favorite tracks (the heart symbol) are gone. That’s a bummer, but not the end of the world. It just helped me to know which tracks on less familiar albums were the ones I preferred playing.

Playback is working normally to me PS Audio Directstream Junior and I’ve got things going on my original MacBook Pro and iPhone which I’ve always used. I created a backup of this state on Dropbox last night. Today, I’ll try setting up Roon on ym brand spankin’ new Macbook. Remember, that’s when this whole problem ocurred in the first place so I’m a bit nervous that something will go awry again. Should I be worried about setting up Roon on my new Macbook? I’m just using it as a remote but I belive all laptop or desktop computers require the full Roon software not just Remote like iOS devices.

If I really wanted to restore my favorite tracks, should I restore my database from a recent backup? Turns out I do have recent backups, but I was just looking for them in the wrong place. My last one before today was 9/29/17. Would restoring to a previous backup run the risk of causing the same database error that caused all this or was that purely due to a harddrive issue? By the way, did you ever diagnose the harddrive issue by looking at my logs? Is it likely to happen again? If so, should I prepare to replace my NUC or its SSD drive?

Maybe all these backups have been slowing my laptop performance and I haven’t realized the cause. Seems lame that I cannot run backups when my laptop isn’t in use or it’s asleep. Why can’t the NUC do this directly to Dropbox instead of my laptop doing the work? If I don’t want to slow my laptop’s performance, I guess the other option is to have the NUC run backups to my connected usb drive, but isn’t that less secure than Dropbox (in the case of hardrive failure)?

Thanks again for your assistance!

I have actually been waiting on setting up Roon on my new Macbook until you give me the go-ahead. Is it safe to try it?

Okay, I tried setting up Roon on my new Macbook. I started by deleting the software I had before and downloading it again from scratch. Everything worked just fine. Connected to ROCK, my USB drive, and DSJ endpoint. I’m up and running! Any final word on the health of my NUC baed on the logs?

Hi @Brice_Lang ----- Thank you for touching base and my apologies for the slow response here. I am pleased to hear that things have remained stable since the “reinstall” process :clap:

Moving forward, a few things based off the most recent PMs you’ve sent us:

“If I really wanted to restore my favorite tracks, should I restore my database from a recent backup? Turns out I do have recent backups, but I was just looking for them in the wrong place. My last one before today was 9/29/17. Would restoring to a previous backup run the risk of causing the same database error that caused all this or was that purely due to a harddrive issue?”

  • Restoring from a back up should have no adverse affects, but it is important to remember that this is contingent on the “health” of the backup. You can indeed give the restore a go if you’d like, but being as you are in a healthy/working state currently, I would recommend generating a backup of the current DB, first. This will ensure that have a fall back in case there is something wrong with the “9/29/17 backup”.

“Any final word on the health of my NUC baed on the logs?”

  • I left a note with our tech team today, requesting an update on their analysis. I expect to get some feedback either later today or early tomorrow. As soon I get the word I will be sure to reach out asap. Thanks for the patience, Brice!

-Eric

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Hi @Brice_Lang ---- Thank you again for your patience, it has been very appreciated. How have things been holding up?

In regard to the health of your NUC. I spoke to our techs who have completed their analysis of your logs. They’ve informed me that they are not seeing any traces that indicate issues in relation to the health of your NUC, but I want to be clear that our logging is going to focus on the relationship between our application and how it behaves on the given device.

In short, if an element of the NUC (i.e SSD, RAM, or CPU) is starting to fail we will not be able to pinpoint this exactly. If anything our logging is going to pick up the subsequent results of this “failure”. If everything is up to date and you aren’t experiencing any power hits, my assumption is that this was not related to some external factor or hardware failure. I would recommend keeping an eye on things and making use of our backup functionality to ensure that your Roon elements are kept safe.

"Really everything is new, especially the NUC, it’s SSD, and RAM. I got them all 3 months ago, brand new from Amazon. "

-Eric

Thanks, Eric. I have been listening to music a lot lately and everything has been rock solid (see what I did there?). I am making full use of Backups via DropBox just in case. Apparently the NUC has a 3 year warranty. I’m surprised the warranty period is that long. Okay well I guess I’ll just proceed as usual unless symptoms return.

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@Eric I’m wondering if this problem with my database is rearing its head again. Today I switched from a temporary modem/router combo back to my standard modem/router combo and I haven’t been able to use Roon since. The weird thing is that my network seems to be performing just fine. My internet speeds are pretty darn fast and I confirmed that the ethernet connection feeding data from my Intel NUC is to my DirectStream Junior is working as it should (hooked that ethernet cable to my laptop to run a speed test). So my internet is solid, and my NUC (ROCK) and DSJ are connected via ethernet to my router. For most of the night, I have been getting the same error (attached image #1)

The reason I wonder about my NUC (ROCK is this error I got just one time.

Hey @Brice_Lang – Eric will be along to help here, but just skimming this thread, it looks like you’ve seen your database become corrupted twice, and I just want to mention how rare that is.

Across 10s of thousands of installs, we’ve seen database errors maybe 60 times. This is actually lower than what I would expect to see just based on hard drive failure rates, which probably means there are some people running with hard drives that are starting to fail, but Roon’s database has been resilient enough to not fail.

The point is, if this has happened twice, something is very wrong here. It could be a problem with the hardware (bad hard drive; bad cable; etc), or a problem with the environment (frequent sudden power cuts, etc), but under normal operation this should never happen, nevertheless happen twice.

Eric will work with you to do whatever we can to identify the problem, and he has access to our technical team so we can advise you.

If the message only happened once and went away, it may not be as bad as I am describing, but I am going to enable some diagnostics on your account so Eric can follow up when he’s back online.

Sorry for all the trouble here @Brice_Langwe’ve spent months chasing bad hard drives in the past, and generally speaking we’re able to find the problem. It just takes time in cases like this – we appreciate your patience.

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Thanks for your reply, Mike. I can work with Eric.

Do you need me to send logs again? Should I go ahead and buy a replacement hard drive? If I end up having to do that eventually, I might as well reduce the wait time and order now.

Should I move the core over to my laptop this weekend so i can actuallybuse Roon again?