Roon 1.3 : Top Priorities

These issues have been discussed at length before, but in brief:

Think cloud. Think connection to your home. The device can contain a subset of your library, which you can select manually or based on an automatic algorithm or a combination, you pick some stuff and the device is automatically filled up. These are available without connectivity. When you have network, which is increasingly ubiquitous (LTE or wifi), your own library is available from the cloud copy or your home server, and Tidal is available. You can play over the cloud, or download and keep.

This is how a Kindle works. The library browser can show local content or cloud content, and you can bring things down, either from the device in pull mode, or you can send things down to it.

The main point is that it is all fluid, due to cloud.

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Iā€™m pretty familiar with cloud and mobile networking given my day job. Thatā€™s why I said what I said. LTE or wifi are not satisfactory for lossless except in the best circumstances. Tidal doesnā€™t have much of what I keep in my server. Those ā€œsolutionsā€ serve mass-market, lossy, popular music listening, with low willingness to pay, which is also a big, unsustainable financial drag on streaming providers including Tidal. Thatā€™s not Roonā€™s market.

Some info here on the differencesā€¦

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Dynamic_Range

Honestly, R128 makes more sense in a technical sense as it eliminates the biggest peaks & troughs to come up with itā€™s figure, but DR seems far more widely used and is therefore arguably more relevant. I think a lot of us could immediately get a feel for the level of dynamic compression to expect when given a DR figure, but not so much R128. Perhaps Iā€™m wrong, would be interested to know if others disagree.

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The reason to use R128 is not to display the dynamic range, it is the base for an accurate volume leveling which also correspond with the volume information from TIDAL, so we get a constant volume level on all playlists, even mixed lists between TIDAL and local tracks.

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I have suggested that the right architecture could meet several needs.
If the system supports sync among my Roon environments, of library metadata and of all or part of the content, and if it supports sync to/from my cloud repository, and if it has self-contained mobile versions, it could meet several needs:

  • Let me play my content in multiple locations, using normal, full-quality, full library size Roon systems

  • Let me play local content on mobile devices, using the manual content selection for downloading that you are asking for, like we do today with various devices but the consistent Roon interface and benefits

  • Let me walk around the house, or out on the deck or in the garden, with mobile Roon (see my note about the Audeze Lightning cable/DAC/amp with the EL-8 cans ).

At the same time, if/when you have adequate networking capabilities, the same solution supports

  • Streaming of your own content, or Tidal or other services

  • If streaming is undesirable or inadequate, you can download content that you forgot to bring

I contend that adequate bandwidth is frequently available today and is rapidly becoming more ubiquitous.

These are all benefits for the high-end demographic you talk about. Iā€™m a member, and I have an altar to the high-end with clean power and ludicrously expensive gear and sometimes I go there to listen. But thatā€™s not the only place that I listen.

If it also appeals to younger people, thatā€™s cool tooā€¦

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I donā€™t think Roon appeals to younger people. Then it would have to be free.
Young people use either the free Spotify or Youtube.

Personally I do not miss offline or Cloud streaming my Roon library.
I find Tidal is sufficient for on the move streaming.

I would rather see the iPhone/iPad as an endpoint first just like you can with iPeng.
That would also be useful for you and let you walk round the house with your ā€œAudeze Lightning cable/DAC/amp with the EL-8 cansā€ :wink:

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Iā€™d at least like to be able to use the Roon UI and stream what is available from Tidal while mobile. Trying to support reliable streaming from residential broadband connections is going to be a world of hurt for multiple reasons. Supporting streaming from a service like AWS cloud storage ($60/yr unlimited) would make far more sense.

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@rune @Fernando_Pereira
Depends on what we mean by young. How about somebody in their 50s :slight_smile:?
It isnā€™t about years, itā€™s about lifestyle. Iā€™m talking about somebody who doesnā€™t listen only at home, somebody with an active lifestyle.
Sure, @rune, with an iPad endpoint and the Audezes I can walk all around my home, but I canā€™t walk around in a second home, or a boat, or a resort, or an Airbnb, or when visiting friends or family, or in a car or airplane or office. And I do those things a lot.

Today I can use other devices and services. But itā€™s a pain. They have different user interfaces. The original metadata problem that first drove us to Sooloos and Roon, if the different systems sort and classify things differently. ā€œShifting Graceā€: Roon sorts it under Michele Rabbia, a mobile device under Marilyn Crispell, both are known and favorite artists, but another tool sorts it under Vincent Courtois whom I never heard of, and yet another sorts it under ā€œVincent Courtois/Michele Rabbia/Marilyn Crispellā€ which means it doesnā€™t show up under any of those artists. And car and A&K portsble have hundreds of GB and 600+ CD quality albums, so if things are mis-sorted I never find them.

Is it possible? Sure. But it is not good.

And managing space when copying selected music to the devices. And different formats and sample rates and bit depths. Gaah!

The reason I keep harping on this is that sync is a hard problem (as we have discussed with @Danny), especially multi-master. Imagine I have a home system and an office system. I once copied my home library to the office. Now I edit the metadata and buy some new albums and edit their metadata in the office. I can sync by copying the new albums and the entire database over to home. But what if I am not so tidy that I bring the entire database with me and resync every day? I do some more edits and buy some albums at home? How do I merge those databases? Merge with conflict resolution requires not just sophisticated database technology but semantic awareness. At home, I edit the artist for an album; at the office, I give it five stars. If I just copy one database over I lose one update. If the system understands the semantics it can keep both because they donā€™t conflict. But if I gave it five stars in one place and three stars in the other, which edit wins?

Practical issues: I delete an album from my mobile device to make room, how do we sync? Delete it from the other devices? NOOO, I still want the album. Copy it back to the device where it us missing? NOOO, then I canā€™t use a small device. Accept the album is missing in some devices as long as it is on the others? Sounds ok, but one day you delete the copy on the last device because delete was a non-risky operation, but oopsā€¦ Treat the home system as the master, never sync from the others to the master? Too rigid, means I canā€™t download a new album when Iā€™m traveling, thatā€™s no good.

Hacking about with a mess of different and uncoordinated devices is cumbersome and errorprone.

In my mind, fixing this changes my life. Iā€™m going to be happy when I get metadata editing, but it wonā€™t change my life.

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I would be happy with outside the house options, all of them available to those that need/want, be it onboard stored / downloaded tracks, remote streamed tidal or even streamed remote from my NAS via whatever connectivity I haveā€¦granted if it doesnt meet speed needs its going to be unusable. I have all that now on my NAS via DS Audio (Synology) and I use it a lot.

Whilst I understand peoples desire to have access to Roon anytime, anyplace, anywhere I am not fussed at all.
Luckily I live in the UK where we have some of the best Radio in the world via the BBC.
I work for myself and listen to a lot of talk radio. BBC Radio 4 including ā€˜The Archersā€™, BBC Radio 4 extra, BBC Radio 5 Live and the many BBC High quality music station.
Not having Roon available is great as this becomes my dedicated radio listening time with no other options.
I can get all this free (Save the bargain of the license fee) and easily via FM or DAB. When asked about my education I explain I have a degree in life via Radio 4.
The audio quality is not relevant as the content is so strong. If your lost in a radio drama, what more could you need.
If your following a discussion or listening to a knowledgable speaker on her subject, clarity is all thatā€™s required.
What am I trying to say? Nothing really other than, Lucky Me!

Thoughts, Chris :sunglasses:

Banking off of the northeast winds
Sailing on a summer breeze
And skipping over the ocean like a stone

One day we will do this with Roon, but Iā€™m not betting on 1.3. Sounds like the kind of thing that might need a 2 in front of it.

I ā€œdesperately needā€ mobile offline use of my Roon database and music. Note that this is not just to do with phones (although I have the biggest iPhone 7 which would work pretty well) but also to do with laptops.

I spend much of my life on the move with my 1Tb MBP and would be able to fit a good subset on that.

Not only a matter of getting access to the music (I can do that with export, as I currently do) but of being able to use and edit tags and metadata in a seamless manner. And of course play counts.

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Streaming from my home is still the main reason why I use Jriver. While Iā€™m walking, rollerblading, driving in my car, or at work I can stream everything from my library at home, to my phone, uncompressed if you want. No Hi resolution of course, that gets converted.

It does take a bit of knowledge on how firewalls and routers work but the end result is, I donā€™t store any music on my phone anymore.

I hope Roon offer this soon but Iā€™m not sure if Tidal would be integrated smoothly, since its already being streamed to your home then again to your device. I have a feeling this is why they havenā€™t offered it yet.

But you can stream Tidal to your phone todayā€¦

Tidal yes, Roon no. Thereā€™s lots of music that Tidal doesnā€™t carry that I have. Then you could use Roonā€™s Bookmarks to play all your saved Playlists. Almost all playlist or random plays from streaming services are limited in what they do. Thatā€™s were dedicated software programs excel, ie. Jriver, Roon. You can get very specific, to what you want to listen too, with these programs.

Not a ā€œtopā€ priority, but annoying and perhaps very easy to solve. I am so used to swiping on my Apple Magic Trackpad: swiping to the right with two fingers to go back, swiping to the left with two fingers to go to the next page. This does not work in Roon and itā€™s frustrating. Itā€™s not logical either, as swiping up and down does work. Would be so much easier and intuitive than having to click on the arrow to return each time. Or do I overlook something in Roon Preferences or MacOS Settings?

EDIT: in the menu option ā€œOverviewā€, swiping to both the left and the right DOES work, making it even more strange and illogical that it doesnā€™t work elsewhere in Roon.

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  1. I know that itā€™s out of your plans the folder based browsing but it will be a welcome addition.

  2. Support for lyrics in custom made collections. I have some handmade collections for quick access. When I play them I have no lyrics. Maybe a simple search only with artist and track name.

  3. Duplicate album view. I have many albums and I discover the duplicates by accident or using Foobar2000 filters. Maybe an overlay icon.

  4. Proper support for Greek Artists. I know that we are a very small market and I canā€™t ask for much. But the matching between greeklish and greek is something that can be done.

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Duplicates: Focus/Inspector/Duplicates

I know this is on the list, but for me it would go a long way if the ā€œRadioā€ function would find Tidal database artists, not just whats in my library. One of the main reasons I bought into Tidal was to find new music, similar in genre(s) as to what I have currently accumulated over the years in my FLAC library. The Focus feature does help, but is a little more tedious to find new music on the fly.

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A way of connecting away from your home network (port forwarding maybe) would be great. To be able to connect in your car using Roon would make it perfect to me

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