Roon 1.8 (Build 913) Feedback Thread

Which raises an interesting point. @CrystalGipsy just posted that “SQ sounds as it always has”, and that was my experience too.

But if we take your point regarding correlating experience and memory seriously, and I think we should, then all of us who don’t hear a difference following the latest upgrade are making an equally erroneous claim.

Bottom line, for me at least: Roon haven’t changed anything that could affect SQ (DSP, bit perfect transport etc), so I’ll go along with the idea that it hasn’t changed because that’s the assumption that makes most sense.

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But this is only my memory and not a real indicator, said this before this argument works for both sides. Unless you can compare two sources at same time exactly volume matched and seamlessly switch between them all bets are off. I said this in another post on comparing sq on Roon Vs native streaming. I just listen really nothing stands out as being any different. Mostly when things do it’s my mood and health that’s the issue not hardware or software. I just listen to music not my system, people should just do this more and stop trying to compare things all the time. You might enjoy music more. It’s not about the kit.

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Yep, and it seems that most of us fall into one of two camps. Those who privilege their immediate experiences and perceptions over and above common sense and received wisdom, and those that have the good sense to do neither.

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You might be onto something here. I have not had the reboot issue, but when fast scrolling the artists view I have observed a page full of grey circles after I stopped scrolling. The pictures did not start to appear for 5-10 seconds, after which they refreshed rather slowly. Seen this on macpro and win10 clients using ROCK server. Not seen this issue on an iPad.

Obviously, when doing this the pictures have to be locally retrieved and sent over the LAN so I wouldn’t expect an instant refresh, but not a ‘looks like it has frozen’ delay either.

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Fast scrolling on Android seems to produce aarge gap which I have flagged before and been ignored.

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The ‘it doesn’t sound as good as it used to’ syndrome is probably a leading cause of upgradeitus.

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Grateful for your assistance, Paul - I tried the approach as per your suggestion but to no avail. I’ve now raised a support ticket so hopefully we’ll get the issue fixed soon.

Thanks again

Michael

Thanks Carl - done!

All the best.

michael

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Updated my iPad’s Roon app this morning after a reboot. Had updated the Core server on iMac two days ago. Something’s been radically improved. The whole app feels snappy, albums scrolling is speedy and changing from one organization to another (by date then to, say, by Album title) is instantaneous.

No perceived differences in sound quality at this point. Very happy to have a responsive remote experience.

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Best release yet probably. I am unaffected by the HQPlayer changes, but that doesnt mean im happy about possibly being affected that way in the future. If the hardware i am using is fine for what im using it for, it should not be made obsolete by something as simple as a software update. Something like a computer running hqplayer embedded should be able to be thought of as an appliance, not desktop computing.

Ive read the same response again and again, and the truth is… when writing software, legacy support is absolutely in the realm of possibilities. You can still run DOS executables on Windows in 2022. It may take more effort and time…. But well, welcome to the turd future that is software as a service (SAS).

Very happy with iOS scrolling improvements, and overall it feels like the ios app is finally getting the attention that its desperately needed for so long

I also noticed that i am able to access roon remote over VPN, not sure when that changed, but roon never worked on my phone before because of my vpn connection. Glad thats fixed. It would be nice to be able to explicitly set roon server to listen on multiple network interfaces tho.

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I’m sure our memories are better what you suppose.

For instance the smell of fried potatoes and onions.

Even though several months have passed since the last time I visited a restaurant for breakfast, as I walked up to the restaurant this morning the wind blew a scent by that I recognized immediately as fried potatoes and onions.

I didn’t have to go back into the restaurant and order the fried potatoes and onions, take a whiff, and think, “ So that’s what fried onions and potatoes smell like. Oh yea, that’s what I smelled outside the restaurant.”

There are a group of scientists that believe dogs can’t remember from one day to the other the tricks or experiences they have each day yet my dog somehow remembers where his bowl is at and brings it to me to fill each evening and morning.

At the store, it was my job to set up Linn, the Oracle, Sota, and Denon turntables. There were many different combinations of cartridges, tonearms and tables that customers could select. I set them all up. I used several LPs to set the final VTA, tracking, and azimuth as each combo allowed. I knew when the setup was correct because when playing certain tracks a could remember what the vocals sounded like or tge pluck of a string or the sound of a kick drum or probably dozens of other cues. I didn’t have to go and listen again to the recordings I used. I knew how they were supposed to sound. And of course each combo had its own sound.

I was actually quite skilled with it and customers and friends often asked me to set their tables up if they acquired new equipment.

I’m sure you do remember specific sounds very well, I do too working in professional audio everyday for years - once you focus on details and how they perform in a space and what adjustments sound like you embed those impressions into different memory locations than ‘what this song sounds like’ memories. It forms a different neural pathway.

Now, comparing to smelling potatoes and onions (ok, now hungry) is not an accurate comparison to sound as smell memory is in a completely different part of the brain, and one that is more closely linked to memory; mammals have this historically to identify our mothers and den and danger and enemies. The olfactory center is much more hardwired to memory for this reason and isn’t a good comparison to general sense-memory.

The brain absolutely plays tricks on our minds vis-a-vis sound quality, sound details - certainly when we ‘focus’ on what an adjustment has done our brains often corroborate our expected results even when the factual change is not commensurate. This is the nature of forebrain perception. However, when NOT concentrating on the changes or ‘what does this sound like now’ the brain will absolutely be able to tell that ‘something has changed’; so I’d say that, much like looking at a faint star where focusing off to the side allows our retinas to engage with the more sensitive rods rather than cones, if we listen as we normally do rather than focus on the timbre of a specific instrument, it will be readily apparent when things have changed, for better or worse. In my experience. Then focusing on what has changed and why is more possible. However, it takes practice to not fool yourself. And even then, perception is slippery.

And, on top of all that, people hear differently. There are absolutely ears that ear well and specifically resolve details, and there are ears that don’t. Meaning brains that don’t. So, knowing what kind of ear/brain system you have is a basic starting place to understanding how to evaluate sound reproduction. My 2¢ (from years of experience evaluating critical sound reproduction systems.) YMWV. (Your Mileage Will Vary…)

Oh. And dogs 100% remember day to day and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous (I know you weren’t suggesting this but referring to others). They perceive and retain information differently than we do, but their memories work great for what they need. Their sense of smell is hundreds of times more sensitive than ours, and hearing is generally more acute, but in any case sensory cues are committed to a dog’s memory just as they are with ours. Just note how they know the difference between our footsteps and those of a stranger, and if we’ve been with our ex-girlfriend by the smell of our clothes, or where that bone was buried two seasons ago… they remember without doubt. They just form sense memories based on different cues than we do, generally - much more reptile brain, fight-or-flight level stuff. Not so much sound quality of a stereo system level stuff.

EDIT: And to vaguely stay on topic: latest build working very well for me, no hiccups installing or playing so far. Thanks!

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Remote: Galaxy Tab S6 SM-P610 / Android 11 / ONE UI 3.1

After updating the app to Build 913 the GUI is flickering between normal tones and a slightly darker tone (light or dark mode).

Is @Support looking into this. Adding albums is a nightmare since the upgrade? Are other users having problems adding new albums?
Also Roon gets confused now when an album is removed.

Album added as shown but Roon thinks the third movement of the Piano Concerto should be repeated! I can say that for certain only one copy of the file is present om my system. 913 seems to have made the database very flaky.

Interesting point, which raises an interesting question.

If you think about it there must be quite a wide range of initial conditions that would lead to the statement “that’s the smell of fried potatoes and onions”. For example, the chef could use different types of potatoes, different oils to fry them, different types of onion, different mixes of herbs and seasonings, but I suspect you would still recognise the smell immediately … fried potatoes and onions.

Perhaps it’s the same with audio. When you say things like “I knew when the setup was correct because when playing certain tracks I could remember what the vocals sounded like”, maybe there’s a whole range of objectively different ways those vocals could sound that would lead you to the claim “yep, that’s how they should sound”.

I’m not saying that we have no powers of discrimination, clearly we do, but I suspect that our objective accuracy in such matters is way less than we would like to believe.

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Yes it appears to be a bug for now.

Importing local album bug (from B911) -split tracks - Support - Roon Labs Community

I don’t know if it’s my imagination but somewhere between the last two upgrades Radio is now playing a mix of music in my local library and from Qobuz. Prior, I am fairly certain most if not all tracks played were coming from Qobuz.

I readily admit this may be me simply not paying close enough attention prior and Radio has been playing my local library along with streaming.

From recent release notes:

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Thanks @joel!

I really do need to read the release notes a little more thoroughly.