Roon 2.0 and internet connectivity [it's just like 1.8 now]

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570

I have a local library (exclusively from the end of this month as I say goodbye to Qobuz) but I’m connected to the internet for the vast majority of the time. Outages tend to be short, but sometimes last several hours. I’ve had one that lasted a week or so (I think - it was a while ago!). For me, and I suspect for many others who would have preferred to keep offline access, it’s not a total deal breaker. I’ll keep with 1.8 Legacy whilst it’s supported (or until I have a use for ARC) and then move to 2.0 with contingency plans.

At the end of the day all local library users need to weigh up what Roon provides against what other services provide. Audrivana, JRiver etc. - they don’t cut it for me. One thing is certain, offline access post-2.0 is not coming back.

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571

Solely from my point of view the ‘always on’ connection isn’t an issue, as our broadband is very reliable indeed, but I can fully understand how it must be for those with a less reliable connection.
I use a Linn KDS and the music on the ROCK NUC is backed up to a variety of places, including an always on HP MicroServer which is used for PLEX amongst other things, so I have Linn’s KazooServer installed there and in the very unlikely instance of broadband failure I can simply use that alongside the Linn app on my phone, for local files.

I understand the reasoning behind Roon’s move in this direction but I think they’ve done the right thing in offering the 1.8 legacy version to those who don’t like the ‘always on’ part of 2.0.

Michael

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572

What you’re seeing in this thread is that many might not agree as to just how good that reason for continuous internet connectivity might be. As far as I can tell, there is nothing particularly differentiating about Roon as a front end for streaming music services. What made Roon unique was the quality of their metadata management and the corresponding interface for your locally stored music. Yes, people definitely used Tidal and Qobuz within Roon (and thus had challenges) because it is admittedly nice to have a common interface to all of one’s music options, both streaming and local, but are people really paying for Roon if they only stream? My impression was that streaming service use was an adjunct to their core focus on managing one’s local music library.

If one only streams, then I agree that required continuous internet access is not an issue. It makes perfect sense. But local music management was Roon’s raison d’etre.

I really do understand the appeal of the cloud from a development perspective, because it can make many things easier, especially with as much as the tools, APIs, etc. have matured in the last 10 years. But you still need to evaluate if it’s actually better across all (or at least most) user use cases. When a product is inherently local in it’s core focus, then moving those core functions to the cloud may not make sense even if it’s easier or better in some areas. I’m not buying a smart lock for my house that requires continuous internet access no matter how good my internet connection might be or how impressive some of it’s other features might be. It’s inherently a local device and I want local control at all times. By all means, augment that core local function via cloud services and trumpet it from the roof tops, but don’t lose sight of your core focus in the process.

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573

I’m not saying that I fully accept/understand/support what’s happening. What I am saying is that it now appears to be a done deal.

574

I agree. I love Roon’s rich metadata. However if I were only streaming I wouldn’t need Roon. Tidal, Apple Music etc can provide much of the experience – albeit diminished.

DSP and multiple endpoints are also important to me. I too am remaining on 1.8 Legacy waiting to see what happens but I doubt I’ll abandon Roon. I looked at JRiver– functional but with a GUI that looks like it was developed in the '90s and Audirvana which is slick but lacking the metadata and to my ears the SQ and DSP were not on a par with Roon.

575

Why is everyone falling for the nonsense from Roon about “we need to improve search and that requires the cloud”?

Building excellent cloud search has absolutely no bearing on the ability of Roon to have a simple offline mode with no search. Is everyone so gullible here?

Roon has put in a kill switch for offline use and has yet to offer a legitimate explanation. They only offer obfuscation, diversion, and derision.

The thing about startups is that founders are frequently ousted by their boards because they are unfit to manage and lead. It happens regularly.

Every person on this forum has been the victim of derogatory and unprofessional remarks by Roon. Is their Board of Directors thrilled about that when their business model relies on sustaining monthly payments?

Their revenue could collapse within weeks when more and more of their customers realize what’s going on, how they are abused, and how the aggressive behavior to throttle discussion is backfiring into a public relations disaster.

Do they think people who use this forum won’t speak out elsewhere, beyond their control?

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576

Nobody’s falling for anything. Roon have always made the software that Roon wants to make. This model has allowed them to develop an interesting and appealing product. If Roon 2.0 results in “revenue… collapse within weeks” then they’ll have to think again. I very much doubt that this will happen.

No discussion has been throttled. If it had then why would this thread still exist? Everybody is free to make their consumer choices based upon what Roon is offering. If you (or I) like it, we stick around. If you (or I) don’t like it, we look elsewhere.

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577

If you have a lifetime subscription, looking away won’t make much difference in terms of Roon’s revenue. It may actually help a little in terms of operating costs.

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578

That explanation is weak but there’s a secondary motivation here. Moving processing requirements to cloud-based services in future to reduce the barrier to new customers who may have neither the $ or technical expertise to manage a home server, even one as simple as a Nucleus. The support forum is rife with complaints and requests for assistance from customers who aren’t familiar with routers, IP addresses or the necessities of running a home network.

In future Roon should be as easy to use and simple as turning on a radio or other home appliance.

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579

I would be grateful if you didn’t speak for me Charles, you don’t know me, or how I think or feel.

I looked at the update and choose to install it, I had a small stumble but was able to configure the system to my needs; now I am happy with the outcome, and accepting of the changes that have been made.

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580

Neat, more motivation to find an alternative to Roon. Im getting pretty sick of every time theres a major update we, as users, are told to suck eggs.

How hard is it to retain basic offline functionality? Actually, i really dont care how hard it is. Its pretty basic. Local playback should always work whether theres an active internet connection or not.

Users should be telling YOU to suck eggs, not the other way around.

Its unfortunate for the folks who purchased lifetime Roon without knowing what theyre actually ending up with.

Im glad i have the option to pack up and take my money with me. Ive got a hurricane on the way and power will more than likely be back up before internet.

May very well be canceling my subscription depending on how inconvenienced i am.

The LUMIN app paired with minimserver works almost as good as Roon with HQPlayer and is free or significantly cheaper if you buy a minim license.

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581

I’ll throw in my two cents about being extremely disappointed in this change as well. There is absolutely no reason you can’t turn off search, or enable an offline (inferior if it needs to be) search mode for when there is no internet connection. As a subscriber of a $125/yr piece of software, it’s incredibly disheartening to see the way the company is speaking to its user base here. The core functionality of the software is managing local music libraries, managing endpoints, applying DSP if desired, and outputting important information about the chain, bitrates, formats etc. NONE of which requires internet access. A very nice addition when you ARE connected to the internet is streaming music and rich metadata, but neither of this is core to the base functionality of the software.

I’m seriously going to have to reconsider my subscription. Not so much because this is a dealbreaker for my own use case, but more because it’s obvious by the tone deaf answers here to legitimate user feedback, that the company doesn’t care for the needs and opinions of its client base.

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582

I bought a phone that is software upgradeable. The company that makes it has continuously make improvements, from 2G, 3G through 4G generations. I can use the phone to communicate anywhere on the 2G, 3G and 4G networks.

Last week, the company who makes the phone released firmware version 2.0 saying that this is the future and the phone would be able to run 5G. Apparently, the phone only works with 5G. If you go to areas that don’t have 5G coverage your phone won’t work at all.

This Sunday morning, I am driving in the woods just outside my neighbourhood, an area that don’t have a 5G signal and my car breaks down. I need to contact someone for help. I see clearly on my phone screen that 4G, 3G and 2G signals are available and very strong. But, still I cannot make a call and or even text a message to anybody because my phone now only works on 5G.

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583

I assume this is an analogy. The problem is not your phone, it’s your car. The problem is not Roon, it’s your internet.

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584

Hqplayer as well, but I think that may require an internet connection to check licensing at startup. :thinking:

585

I had missed that point.That there are those « very heavy » Roon core reasons, that would be moved outside to the core to the Internet. Fine.

But what are those resource parts of Roon core that are so heavy ? It seems logical that they would be related to searches within the Internet and all of the clever labeling and feature extraction put in place for it.
And then, for simply playing out local albums and playlists, the scope of Roon is much simpler and it should not require a very heavy Roon core.
Hence, is not there a simple solution, that would leave the basic Roon functionalities functional in the absence of Internet, given that in such situations anyway these elaborate search functionality cannot deliver results ? The rest can reside and work in the Cloud…

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586

It does indeed

587

This has been a very interesting thread, and a very long one at that. Roon essentially morphed into a quite different product as from its conception. Roon, at the beginning, was like the ultimate LAN player; a far superior version of JRiver and Foobar2000. Linn and Sonos had their systems developed in a similar vein. Prior to working as a data architect, I used to work in the high-end audio industry and built up a substantial system of components, the central piece being PS Audio’s DirectStream DAC, which connects to my LAN through an Ethernet cable. For those not in high-end audio, we’re a little ‘old-school’ in some ways. Wires in preference to wireless, for example. We value resilience in the architecture of the system.

Roon has moved into a very different world along with the likes of Tidal, Spotify and PlexAmp with the introduction of its ARC app. Roon may become very successful and grow but with a new audience and customer base who never approached Roon as a product for what it originally started out with. Perhaps they will become more profitable with the new user type, but naturally, those who grew attached to Roon feel abandoned as if we were sold a juicy steak at a restaurant and end up getting fish, to quote a crude analogy.

Saying that, this thread resonates strongly with me as in my current role, I am working on a data project for a business to ensure that Internet resilience is part of the scope. For those in the data field, you may have come across ‘the Cloud’ and On-Prem (‘prem’). Essentially, this serves as a hybrid solution if the Internet fails. For example, I used to work in the South Australian courts data team and we had to ensure that resilience to the failure of the Internet.

I am also about to host a keynote speech on systems resilient to the Internet, and this piece will be cited. Not naming Roon of course, but will give a current example in this particular industry. What can be learned? How should the software developers engage with their userbase? Are thorough SDLC systems in place and if so, what are the contingencies and fallbacks.

The owners of this forum are obviously being given a bit of a deluge of feedback, but this is a perfect example of what not to do. I did mention it earlier, but such principal changes to a product’s mission and philosophy is bound to rile up a stir, but it’s not all doom and gloom. The market as a whole continues to improve and there are always opportunities for others to ‘fill in the missing holes’. I, for one, have done quite a lot of extensive research into similar systems I’ve not heard of before, simply because I didn’t bother to do any research because Roon was the solution to my music problems.

Roon 2.0 will attract a different person, but it’s too risky for me to rely on Roon alone with my system, a system that connects to a vast collection of own music files, most ripped from my extensive CD collection.

Perhaps I’m a dinosaur…

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588

Tried going from 1.8 to Legacy and tried from 2.0 to 1.8 Legacy on my spare box and it wasn’t having it. :joy:

It seems there is a couple issues at present as a few of us were trying… :roll_eyes:

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589

I tried going to 1.8 from 2, but with my NAS (Synology), the 1.8 Core refused to connect to my folders, so I had to go back to 2 again.