Roon & Dirac integration again

I also will take the NAD C 658 route. This means I have to sell my Audiolab MDAC + in the near future.

Hi Edward
I’m the OP. I used to have Dirac running from a Windows computer but I was never satisfied with the stability. Now I’m using HAF ( which is a custom made room correction filters that works in Roon. I would recommend this as a third option in your set of solutions.
To me the filters sound better than what I could get from Dirac. The upside is that you are not dependent on other hardware than your Roon core. And you can add filters for all your endpoints in Roon. The downside is that you can’t keep tweeking the filter.
There is a long thread here about HAF: Roon & Home Audio Fidelity (Room Correction / convolution filter creation)
I have no commercial interest in HAF, just a satisfied user.
By the way I’m also very interested in the NAD C658 but not for Dirac but because it will be Roon Ready and hopefully have a great DAC onboard.

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I am familiar with that HAF thread, and recognize that people seem very happy with the result. I think the customize/change/refine opportunities that come with Dirac are really what I am looking for though.

In my experience, target curves that suit certain types of music just don’t do justice to others. And in addition, in my house I have to reconfigure rooms a bit with seasonal changes - moving speakers further away from fireplace in winter for example - and that ability to get a new filter made is important.

I should give HAF a try in a very small room that is more stable though and see if it works as well for me as it dies for everyone else.

I guess my biggest question is whether the AVR based path I mentioned would make me happy. I am dreading tearing apart my theater system to experiment, but part of me really believes the impact of Dirac on the system is so great that the drop-off in amp and DAC quality just won’t be that noticable. Particularly for a 2.2 system that used for TV 85 percent of the time.

Yes, Roon and VST are unlikely to become rommates, ever.

Is that because it is technically feasible or because there is no fiscal motivation to make it happen?

So if I understand correctly - Dirac running in a VST/AU implementation with Roon would always need to be controlled from the actual Roon server itself, and cannot be accessed from a remote, control only Mac or iPad the way the Roon parametric EQ can? That is unfortunate. It would seem to me the parametric EQ interface is preferred model - hence the feature request…

Giving HAF more careful consideration. I have been having numerous issues trying to get the updated version of Dirac to work with my NAD AVR to even do basic testing. Not issues with software itself (yet) but with password resets, licensing, downloads, and help desk communications just not working. Very concerning despite best efforts of Flavio to help.

Hoping it gets resolved eventually - but the DIY/tweakabilty if Dirac loses it’s appeal compared to HAF if I can’t actually use the Dirac software as intended. Not sure I have seen one complaint about software and/or communication issues with HAF. Perhaps I step back from the whole Dirac/NAD path altogether despite it’s amazing potential.

NAD 658 still looks to be a killer piece though.

And that seems to be why unless Dirac devotes the ressources to a Linux, x86 port, Dirac in Roon or on ROCK simply ain’t going to happen. Given how long updates seem to be taking, it’d seem Dirac’s dev team is already quite overworked, which is why I wouldn’t count on that happening anytime soon in the best case scenario (plus, it makes more sense to just suggest the hardware implementations, anyway, because they work for people who don’t run Roon).

@flak can of course offer workarounds with third-party software, but that’ll never be what things should be, which would be to go from Roon => RAAT => Dirac, to Roon => Dirac => RAAT. My hope is team Roon can find a great, more interested partner to implement the feature set Dirac offers (i.e, a gui-driven room correction system that a mere mortal end consumer can set up by themselves without having to spend weeks reading manuals. And yes, Flavio, nothing is quite like Dirac’s algorithms, we know, we know :wink: ).

Given that they’ve already worked with Roon, are already running on linux, x86, and that their system requires a very specific mic, which would essentially work as a hardware dongle, Trinnov would seem like an interesting match. How much integration work that’d take, and, more importantly, whether or not they’re (still, there’s the Sherwood precedent) interested in slumming it at the non oligarch-or-delegate-to-the-national-congress-of-the-communist-party-of-china levels of affordability are other questions entirely.

I use both, Dirac and HAF.
Mostly, I use Dirac with Qobuz and Netflix, sometimes with Roon. HAF is allways in use with Roon. Soundwise I like HAF (with cross talk correction) the most, but you can’t change the target curve as in Dirac. You have to ask Thierry if you want to change something.

Yeah - I get the need to go back to HAF if there are changes. The good thing is that I have enough experience with DRC at this point to know that I will probably need a very slight raise in the LF response up front. My target curve in Dirac always ended up that way. And then sometimes I have learned I just want to turn it off and let the room shape the sound as it will.

But to clarify - you can still turn the HAF filters on/off from for each Roon endpoint from a Roon control app - correct - as you can with parametric EQ?

Yes, you can use an iPad/iphone or Android device turn HAF on/off.

You can also tweak your room curve on top of HAF with Roon PEQ.

Yes you can, but the problem is, that you don’t know exactly with Thierry has done. I mean, you don’t know how the used target curve looks like.

ohh - forgot about that.

You can ask Thierry, i think by default he is not applying any bass boost.

You can measure the output with his filter applied. And then add PEQ and measure again.

I use his filters but I have to say I’d prefer to be able to adjust them myself. I miss that about Dirac, but ultimately Roon with have is a better (and better value) solution. But I do miss the tinkering options and sometimes swap to ones made vie REW so I can adjust and experiment. What would be great would be if Thierry could make a simple ui for his tools that users could use ‘Dirac style’ to make their own filters.

Finally got new version of Dirac Live running full range with 758 v3 in basement HT system. Cambridge Aero BMR based speakers. Listened to a range of music in stereo only. Stunning sound, but thinner, more tuneful LF as expected. Did not try to bump Dirac target curve up closer to a few of the tipped up curves Harman tested - but will get there. The Dirac switching via the AVR remote is very fast and oddly enough very closely matched in level to my ear, but did not test with meter.

Still dreading moving 758 v3 upstairs to test as a long term solution - but based on what I heard this AM it is worth a shot. Refurb 758 v3 AVR would cost $1000 compared to $1500 for the as yet unavailable 658 pre/DAC and $600 for the 268 power amp. Could offset purchase of either with sale of 390DD and MDC modules.

Nice to have options. Happy holidays!

Now that Qobuz has been integrated, I hope the next move will be Dirac!!!

Last week I was in contact with Dirac and asked them about Roon. They let me know, that nothing was planned in that direction. They are no very busy with Dirac 2 and is to be expected this year for Windows/Osx. Dirac 2 for hardware vendors is allready spread out.
So no integration with Roon in the pipeline… or maybe they just wont tell me… :thinking: