Roon does not see new music in NAS

Usually the way your point to a network storage device running on a Mac you use the nomenclature:
smb://NASDRIVENAME/Music (for example)
Have you tried: smb://Servidor1/music ?

I’m not sure I understand why it worked before.

Server is mounted as samba.
I enclose two images: one of my NAS server from my Mac mini and the other of my second disk in the Mac mini. I have used this file structure to organise my music for years. It worked perfectly in NAS till yesterday and it continues working in the second disk of the Mac mini (Roon core runs in the first disk)
I neither can understand what has changed: there has been no update in NAS OS and I do not remeber of any updating in Mac mini either (they are not automatic)

Sorry, I enclose another image that I think can be helpful

Hi @Juan_Piedrola,
I’m sorry, I misunderstood the problem at first. You were very clear, I just heard it wrong.
I think you should move this over to Support so they can get their eyes on it.
I’m not able to move this myself. @Rugby or @Carl, can you move this to Support?

It looks like it was moved earlier today and then moved back … a bit strange… no matter it’s in #support now.

Hi,

I’ve moved your topic to the support section of the forum.
In order for Roon’s @support team to better assist you, please provide a brief description of your current setup using this link as a guide.

Make sure to describe your network configuration/topology, including any networking hardware currently in use, so they can have a clear understanding of how your devices are communicating.

Ok, I summarize what I have written. I hope it will be clear:

My Roon Core runs in a Mac mini headless. My music is stored in Mac mini second SSD and in a Synology NAS. I have two watched files: one in the Mac mini, other in the Synology NAS. I do not use streaming services.

The NAS is connected to the Mac mini via Ethernet and Netgear switch. NAS Server is mounted as samba.

Images enclosed:

  • Mac mini (Roon Core) and Synology NAS characteristics

  • Roon storage configuration (two images)

  • File structure in NAS (from Finder in Mac mini). The file structure in Mac mini is similar

The first “music load” was smooth and there were no issues with NAS and Mac mini.

I have no problem playing music already discovered in NAS.

Since the beginning there were some problems to discover the new music added to the NAS, some appeared after some hours, but I started to do always a forced re-scanning of the NAS file as soon as I included a new music file: it worked smoothly.

Since yesterday this method does not longer works. The new music does not appear, I have tried the following with no success:

  • Forced rescanning
  • “Switch off and on” Roon core (and then a forced re-scanning)
  • Disable the NAS watched file, enable it (and then a forced re-scanning)
  • Disable the NAS watched file, “switch off and on” Roon core, enable it (and then a forced re-scanning)
  • Eliminate the NAS watched file and add it again. After the exploring process appears again all the music excepting the new one.

If I move the new music to the other watched file (in Mac mini), it appears after a forced re-scannning.

I have tried to move it back to the NAS and then disappears.

I need the NAS because I am running short of space in Mac mini and I have still a lot of music to include in Roon but I have to select it.

I have used this file structure to organise my music for years. It worked perfectly in NAS till yesterday and it continues working in the second disk of the Mac mini (Roon core runs in the first disk)

I cannot understand what has changed: there has been no update in NAS OS and I do not remember of any updating in Mac mini either (they are not automatic)

Roon Core Hardware

Hello @Juan_Piedrola,

Is there a particular album you’re noticing this for or is it for any media you add? Do you experience this issue with other media you import?

Hello,
I have made different tests using Synology NAS operating system (DSM) and Finder and OS X. You should know that my NAS watched file has “files level 1 (composers)” which contains “files level 2 (music files)” [watched file —> composer (level 1) —> “CD” file (level 2)] I have not been able to cover all the possible variations but for now my conclusions are:

  • If I create the CDfile in the watched file and charge music there, it does not appear in any case in Roon despite forced rescanning.
  • If I create the CDfile in another folder in NAS and then I move it using DSM to the watched folder, it varies:
    • Moving to Level 2, sometimes appear (forced re-scanning), sometimes not.
    • Moving to Level 1 always appear (in one case without forced re-scanning)

No one of these problems happens in watched fili in Mac mini SSD2 (I hace Core in the other SSD of the Mac mini)

Tests have been as follows:
I have always worked with music files and the NAS using Synlology OS (DSM) and web access, I have had always to use the forced re-scanning unless otherwise indicated:
• I have moved an “old” music file within the NAS to the watched folder: the music has appeared after a forced re-scanning
• I have moved one of the music files (file B) that does not appear in Roon to a non-watched file and back again to the watched file: it continues without appearing
• I have moved a new music file (file C: same origin as the ones that do not appear) from Mac to NAS using DSM and Web access: it does not appear
• I have deleted file B and charged it again in a non watched file in NAS, moving then to the watched file Level 2 together with an old music file: they do not appear. But I have moved both files to the first level and they do appear.
• I have created a new file C in a non watched file in NAS and moved it to the watched file, Level 2: it does not appear. I have moved it within the watched file to the Level 1: it has appeared.

I have made the following test using Finder and OS X to create and write the files in NAS with the so called File 1 that I stored the day before yesterday in Mac mini SSD2 because Roon did not see it in NAS:
• I have deleted File 1 from Mac mini using Roon.
• I have charged File 1 in NAS non watched file using Finder. Then using DSM and web access I have moved File 1 to watched file level 1: it has appeared without re-scanning

It is odd. I have now a way to go around the problem but the problem still exists.

You possibly have to shorten your path.

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Thank you.
It does not depend on that: the same file with the same name is seen in Mac mini watched file and not seen in NAS watched file

This is not a valid test method to prove or negate the theory that the path length might be the issue at hand.

Ok, but then why Roon sees them when I charge the file in one way and does not see them when I charge the file in other way? You can read what I have made in detail in my previous posts.
Anyway, any comment will be very welcome.

It does seem that moving files up a level generally allows them to be found, correct?
It’s hard to say about moving things across levels though. Some of the folder names are much longer than others, and in addition, have other things like brackets and parentheses.
Do you happen to recall which files were among those not to be recognized?

I did read your previous posts. I made a guess why you get the problems you see and provided a link to another thread where the possible problem and it’s origin as well as the solution was discussed.

The rest is up to you. Good luck.

No, it is not right. It is partially right: one necessary condition until now is to create the files within NAS in a non-watched file and then to move them to the watched file. When making so two things have happened: in Level 1 they have always appeared and in Level 2 only appeared one file.

Most of my folders names have parentheses and brackets (roughly 90%). Here are the names of the folders:

  • Puccini - Madama Butterfly - Freni, Pavarotti, Karajan, WP (1974 - 2014) [Qobuz 24-96] --> It was the last in appearing with no issue (except forced re-scanning)
  • Puccini - La Boheme - Freni, Pavarotti, Karajan, Berliner Philharmoniker (1972 - 2014) [Qobuz 24-96] --> need to move from a NAS non watched file
  • Haydn - Missa Cellensis - Akademie fur Alte Musik Berlin, RIAS Kammerchor, Justin Doyle (2019) [24-44,1] --> need to move from a NAS non watched file
  • Verdi - Macbeth - Verrett, Cappuccilli, Domingo, Ghiaurov, Claudio Abbado (2018) [24-192] --> need to move from a NAS non watched file
  • Haydn - Tríos para piano completos - Beaux Arts Trio --> need to move from a NAS non watched file
  • Bruckner - Sinfonía nº5 - Klemperer - OFV --> need to move from a NAS non watched file BUT it appeared when placed in Level 2. No need to move to Level 1

I did not realised there was a link. Sorry, I am new to forum.
I have now read it.
Question: From Mac mini, Finder perfectly see any folder in NAS (Linux based OS) and I can open it.
Do you still think this can be the cause?
If so, I will make some tests

macOS and Linux file services interact with Roon in quite different ways. One good example is the long lag between when a NAS reports a new file (minutes to hours) vs when macOS does (virtually immediately).
The link @BlackJack provided (and diagnosed) describes a very similar problem.
It is easy to test. Look among the files with the longest file paths. Are they there or not? If they are not there, does shortening the path make them appear?

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I have made tests trying to accomodate to the suggestions. The results are confusing although good for me because Roon is seeing the new files one way or another.
I have charged the file musics in different ways (from NAS to NAS using DSM and Finder and from Mac to NAS using Finder)
I have used files with very long names (I think) by ading letters to the original name.
I hope tests description to be clear. These are the results:

Test 1a (DSM)

From NAS to NAS Level 1

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Bernstein - West Side Story - Bernstein, Te Kanawa, Carreras, Troyanos, Ollmann (1985-2017) [24-96]

“Spontaneous”……yes

Forced………………//

Test 1b (Finder)

From NAS to NAS Level 1

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Brahms - Violin Concerto & String Sextet No.2 - Isabelle Faust - Harding - (24-44, HM, 2011)

“Spontaneous”……yes

Forced………………//

Test 2a (DSM)

From NAS to NAS Level 2

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzHans Zimmer - The World of Hans Zimmer - A Symphonic Celebration (Live) (2019) [24-44.1]

“Spontaneous”……no

Forced………………yes

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Bernstein - West Side Story - Bernstein, Te Kanawa, Carreras, Troyanos, Ollmann (1985-2017) [24-96]

“Spontaneous”……no

Forced………………yes

Test 2b (Finder)

From NAS to NAS Level 2

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Brahms - Violin Concerto & String Sextet No.2 - Isabelle Faust - Harding - (24-44, HM, 2011)

“Spontaneous”……no

Forced………………yes

Test 3a (Finder)

From Mac to NAS Level 2

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sibelius - Suite Lemminkäinen - La ninfa del bosque - Vänskä, Sinfónica de Lahti (2014) [24-44]

“Spontaneous”……no

Forced………………no

Test 3b (Finder)

From Mac to NAS Level 1

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sibelius - Suite Lemminkäinen - La ninfa del bosque - Vänskä, Sinfónica de Lahti (2014) [24-44]

“Spontaneous”……yes

Forced………………//

Regarding this last test I have to add that when the disc appeared in Roon (in Level 1), the disc was incompletre missing 3 tracks. I edited the “non standard letters” of Folder name, and the tracks appeared (I have had these problems with any player: I think is more a matter of Mac / DSM that cannot read or offer appropriately the name of the files)

It’s important to keep in mind that it isn’t just the length of the filename, but the total length of the whole folder/filename path.
For example:
“//Servidor/music/audivarna/Eigar/filename” is something like 41 characters long. The path is 33 characters (through the last slash) and the filename is 8 characters.
that same file under “/Rimsky - Korsakov…6) [Qobuz 24-96]” is going to be many more characters because that path length is so much longer.
Whenever the total length of the entire file path/filename is greater than 255 characters, you won’t see the file in Roon if it’s on the NAS. Unless that file path/filename is more than ~1000, you will see it in Roon when it’s on the Mac
It’s impossible for us to interpret your results because you do not include the full path name. That is probably why the results are confusing.
If you are not seeing a track that is in a folder where the entire path/filename is greater than 255 characters, this is the problem.
If you are not seeing a track where the entire path/filename is significantly less than 255 characters, it could be another problem.

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