Roon & Home Audio Fidelity (Room Correction / convolution filter creation)


(John) #287

New filters available for HAF (‘Head Model’ & ‘HRTF’)

New HAF Filters


#288

My measurements was done with HQPlayer in the chain. Even it Tierry says that is OK, not so sure that was a clever decition by me.

I latere removed HQPlayer, and let Roon do the job.
I didn’t find the sound getting better with HAF and HQPlayer. Actually worse.

With HAF and Roon it’s OK.

Still I will have to do measurements again. This time it will be one set with pure Roon and one set with Roon upsamle all PCM to 182 or 192 in the custom settings.

Now there is also HQPlayer embedded support in SonicTransporter (very soon) and it’s attempting to try you that as well.

Not sure how many filteres he are willing to make for me.
I have lent my Umic to a friend, so it will take some time before new measurements can be done.


(Steve) #289

Finally got my measurements done and sent off. Only took four months!

Sweet spot looked worse than previously on the left side (a few speaker position tweaks and isoacoustic footers), there’s an even bigger bass trough now where I was assuming the opposite. Anyway excited to see what comes of proper filters after a few different free diy ones with REW. I have to say, more than anything I’m relieved to not have to spend any more time making filters (hopefully).

Listen mostly to electronic and bands so will just go for standard filters.


(John) #290

@Magnus

Sorry to trouble you, but wonder if you can help (you’re the guru with REW).

With the new HAF Filters I will need to redo my measurements (currently having my speakers upgraded - new tweeter, crossovers, etc.) and when asking Thierry he said about re-checking my crossover from Mains to Sub, rather that using an arbitrary 80Hz, which I have at present.

Sorry to be such a square, but how do I go about doing the room transfer measurements (as bolded above) with REW, as it’s sounds from Thierry’s explanation that this would be the better option. so single measurements or do I have to do sweeps.

Also how do I do just the subwoofer, and when doing the left & right speakers do I turn off the sub so it’s only the single speaker? After taking the measurements and overlaying onto each other I look for what to figure out the best crossover frequency?

As you can see from the above I’m a bit of a novice at this, so really appreciate any advice you (or others) can give.

Cheers
John


(Magnus) #291

I think what Thierry means is that you can measure yourself each channel (left only, right only, sub only) to decide a good crossover point. To measure the sub only, you just unplug the speakers. Once you have decided and set a crossover point, set it and measure left + sub and right + sub normally and send those measurements to Thierry for filter generation.

You can read about subwoofer integration on web (google is your friend), but I have mine set to 70 Hz and my speakers starts to drop at 60 Hz so a 10 Hz overlap.


(Steve) #292

First heard about these filters in summer 2017, only took me 3/4 year to get round to making suitable measurements and sending off!

Very much looking forward to the weekend, when I can try the standard HAF filter I just received … :grinning:


(Mark Allen) #293

Anyone try the “HRTF” filter?

If so what equipment do you use?


#294

I used Soundman OKM ii classic rock studio’s however Thierry said that the OKM i’s would be sufficient. He recommended a couple of other brands but Soundman were the only ones available in the UK.

It is important to buy the OKM’s with the A3 battery power supply. Thierry has set up a remote control for measurements using LittleOSC and Pd-extended. Essentially point and click - much easier than REW, especially if you have no experience using REW.

You can use an external sound card but I just plugged them, via the A3, into the line-in of my Mac.

The filters are great, an improvement on the previous xtalk filters, in fact I now use them over my original (non-xtalk) HAFs.


(Mark Allen) #295

Thanks Oliver. Hopefully someday I’ll try them. I currently love my xtalk filters. I also agree his new tool for taking measurements is a lot easier than REW


(Nick Allen) #296

Are the results just as good as with REW?


(Magnus) #297

They are typically better, although I have noticed that as I have added acoustic room treatment, the difference becomes less. Now I only need some smaller modifications, and sit with a symmetrical setup, which means that Thierry gets less to work with so to speak (very little phase difference and not so much eq adjustments needed).


(Nick Allen) #298

Hmmm…I have a dedicated room, though small, at 12x13x8, and it’s fully treated acoustically, although I’ve left some liveliness to the room; it’s not completely dampened.

I email Thierry to make sure we are on the same page. The thing is, I have a Linn KDS/3, which is beyond fantastic, and I also use Space Optimization that comes in the Linn.

The problem I have is twofold: Space Optimization, as good as it is, only operates within the 10Hz to 200Hz range. That’s a pretty small window. The other problem is that I’m still getting smearing, as well as some frequency in there that kind of physically agitates me.

I didn’t immediately think if Thierry’s solution, because I didn’t know about it. I was thinking, “Okay, get that USB mic, let REW do its calculations, and let’s see where I’m at across the whole frequency band. Something isn’t right.”

Then I came across this thread, emailed with Thierry, and he said that he has done a Linn system, having one filter with SO on, and another with SO off, giving a good comparison. It will cost a little more, but it sounds like that’s the route I’ll take, because even though my SO has been “dialed in” by an expert, I still have that niggling desire to know what’s going on with my whole room, as well as finding out what’s causing this anxious feeling, as well as smearing in the stereo image.

Thierry seems pretty confident about the path I’m taking here. Of course, if all of that works out, I might go for the head measurements and all that jazz.


(Mark Allen) #299

Best of luck and keep us posted. I’ve heard Space Optimization before and its a really cool feature I didn’t know it was limited range however. One thing I’d recommend if you don’t have one is to use a microphone stand if you don’t already have one.
Anyway Thierry is super helpful and will help you get the most out of your clearly fantastic system.
On another note, while REW measurements will work, his own open source tooling is just ridiculously easy to use compared to REW.


(John) #300

I’m looking at going for the ‘Excellence Head’ option (I’ve currently got the ‘Xtalk Filters’). As I don’t always sit in the ‘sweet spot’ when listening don’t think the extra hassle to do the HRTF filters would be worth it for me.

Is it just that the new measuring tools from Thierry are simpler to use, or do they give better results over REW, or should I say more consistent result for Thierry to use.

I know Thierry has instructions on his website, but for this Luddite I’m still getting a little confused with it :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Without asking you to spend a lot of time, could you do a simple bullet point listing of the steps.

Any help appreciate.

Cheers
John


(John) #301

Magnus

Thanks for the reply, and sorry getting back to you late.

So you have yours setup with 10Hz overlap (Sub kick’s in 10Hz higher than the mains drop off). What Filter Order do you use for switching on/off your Sub & Mains, as my Devialet amps can do 1st to 4th Filter Order.

If doing the 10Hz overlap is it better to do a flatter drop of between the Sub kicking in, and the Mains dropping out, i.e. should I look at 2nd or 3rd Order (1st too steep and 4th might be too shallow).

Cheers
John


(Mark Allen) #302

I haven’t done a direct comparison of the tools so I can’t answer your question. I wanted to do some additional adjustments since I moved my speakers and I decided to try out his new tool instead of REW. His tool is a script that makes it easy to take one measurement per speaker position and rename the .wav file automatically.
REW works just fine, he recommends it. REW also gives you pretty graphs (but I don’t understand half of them lol)


(Nick Allen) #303

Thanks. Yes, I will keep all posted. It makes me wonder which is more precise to use, REW or Thierry’s, but you say Thierry recommends REW over his own?

As for SO, yeah, it’s a really cool tool. And when I say I have it “dialed in,” I mean, it’s dialed in all the way to mere fractions of frequencies, bandwidth and gain.

The following picture is of my setup, where you can see both the amount of dialing in that was done, but also, that yes, it’s limited. See, the problem with SO is that it’s really designed to use with measured Linn speakers (which I don’t care for), thus the limits of what it can do. Sure, non-Linn speakers have been measured, as well, and it will even work non-measured, non-Linn speakers, like my own. Still, it cures problems only within the parameters of of 10Hz to 200Hz.

I know you didn’t ask for all that, but ya got it anyway. :slight_smile:

So, yeah, I’ll be sure to keep everyone posted. I’m going to do this. :slight_smile:


(Mark Allen) #304

Sorry I wasn’t clear I don’t know if he recommends it over his own, but REW is a recommended solution in addition to his own/open source solution. Best to just email him.


(Magnus) #305

I don’t have bass management on my system, just using the sub-woofer crossover dial. But experiment and see what works best for you. For example, some speakers have a long 1-order crossover between their 2 drivers, some have a very short overlap, i.e. there are no fixed rules as far as I know.

What I have noticed is that I get more warmth and cosyness (!?) with more overlap, but less distinct bass.


(John) #306

Ok, so Low Order for distinct Bass, and higher Order for smoother transition, but less definition of the Bass :+1: