Roon is simply unusable for classical collectors

[HWZ]

@my_changed_username

classical music listeners cannot seem to find their peace of mind with Roon

I see things a little differently. I currently have 7,584 albums (about 35% classical) in my library and not a single one of them is messed up in the way some people describe here. I only have 57 unidentified albums. Almost all of the albums in my library are CD rips or downloads (in fact, only 7 of them aren’t!), but I regularly use both Tidal and Qobuz to discover new music. Whenever I find something that I really want to have and keep, I buy it. If I’m not happy with the information that I get from Roon’s metadata providers, then I use a tag editor (Metadatics). In most cases (>70%), this isn’t necessary. Is Roon perfect? No, it isn’t. Do I think it’s a great piece of software that helps me enjoy my music? Yes, I most definitely do.

(BTW, several times a week, I see unidentified albums etc. on threads like “What are we listening to…”, although the same albums are correctly identified in my own library. I sometimes tell the posters, and then they try again and their albums get identified, too…)

[Volker]

@bbrip

unless we spell out these issues loud and clealy, the software will just not get any better

Yes, but there’s a significant difference between constructive criticism and untenable exaggerations. The claim that “Roon is simply unusable for classical collectors” evidently falls into the latter category. For this very reason, it’s counterproductive! (Unless, of course, all a user wants to do is blow off some steam…)

[bbrip]

Agreed, there is a portion of exaggeration. You need that to get attention - and Roon understands that concept quite well from looking at their marketing claims - that got me here in the first place.

The experience is way below satisfying. And I have yet to discover how and why “Roon understands my music”.

[Alan]

@bbrip

You need that to get attention

This probably depends on what kind of attention users are seeking…

[Johan_Coorg]

I read with some astonishment and a wry smile browsing this thread. Some quite churlish criticism of Roon. Come on people - try navigating some “other” software and see how you get on!! Maybe during these lockdown times we all have more time on out hands - and, like me, are listening to more classical. The advice to ALWAYS show composer has made a big difference for me . A simple search for Henry Purcell proved a revelation after switching composers to always on. This user has both Tidal and Qobuz. If a classical lover and you only want to subscribe to one I would prefer QoBuz. Roon’s metadata services are second to none! Enjoy your music!

Add images

[HoRoJa]

If I wanted help from more experienced/knowledgeable users of a product, I’d be careful not to give them the feeling that I consider them too dumb to realize how bad the product they use actually is…

[bbrip]

@Alan

This probably depends on what kind of attention users are seeking…

Do you pretend I am not having any of the problems I described?

[bbrip]

New situation: When I look for a popular piece (i picked “Carnaval” from Schumann), I get a circling wheel for quite a while, because Roon searches for all the 400-something versions on Qobuz.

Why does Roon not display the handful of versions (in fact only 3) in my library first, and then keep circling for more on Qobuz. And why does it default to the Qobuz-results rather than show my own library results as a matter of priority? Again, looks pretty weird to me.

NB: Is there maybe a hidden Setting that I am missing to set? THanks for any hints?

[Alan]

Not quite sure what you mean by “pretend” in this context, but no, that wasn’t what I was suggesting. Read @HoRoJa’s post. He hit the nail on the head…

[Klaus_Kammerer1 (Klaus)]

@Johan_Coorg

Roon’s metadata services are second to none!

You may be right comparted to other public metadata services (are there any?). But I can relate with the OP’s frustration, although I would not call Roon unusable for classical collectors.

I am using Roon exclusively with my local library of around 10K classical albums and by doing that I am already in 2 minority groups… And certainly not in a group where Roon’s development focus lies.

What frustrates me most, is the “lack of control” Roon allows me in terms of my metadata. My file tags are in very good shape and I’d be happy to live without all the work descriptions and album reviews and artist bios, if Roon would allow me to take full advantage of their database model for composers and compositions using my metadata.
There are settings to “prefer file” almost everywhere but yet they don’t seem to do what I would expect. Roon always wants to “outsmart” me. If I set my library settigs to “prefer file” for compositions I expect Roon to do exactly that. But yet there are so many cases that I reported in the past, where this preference is just ignored.

Assumptions about creators of Roon

I think you are right, but the “magic handling” of metadata is also a big problem IMHO. I have a fairly well-tagged collection and I had a lot of inconsistent attribution of works, expecially in the op.XX/ Nr.YY category. The metadata provider is not consistent in how to group these kind of works. So I thought, I’d be smart and set my library settings to “prefer file” for the composition and work tags… What I have experienced are two things that made me reverse this… I lost my composition d…

I personally don’t need Roon to improve my metadata in any way other than providing relations between my existing metadata like artists, composers, and works. This alone would make me happy and would be worth the price. But what I see is that if I follow this “prefer file” paradigm, Roon still interferes with its magic.

I do understand why so many people could not be happier with Roon, but for my personal use case, it has developed into quite a nuisance. Minim Server could be a viable alternative but then I would need to find a way around my existing endpoints which are based on raspberry pi setups. I did not investigate yet in that direction.

[HWZ]

@bbrip

I get a circling wheel for quite a while, because Roon searches for all the 400-something versions on Qobuz.

I also see the dancing jellyfish in your screenshot. How long does the whole search take? Maybe there’s something wrong with your network or Internet connection? If I type in “Carnaval” and “Schumann” (album page), I get this without any delay whatsoever:

When I click on the top result, it only takes 1.2 seconds before I see all 467 hits:

Everything shows up really fast here in my system (nothing’s hard-wired, WiFi only!)…

[HWZ]

@Klaus_Kammerer1

There are settings to “prefer file” almost everywhere but yet they don’t seem to do what I would expect. Roon always wants to “outsmart” me. If I set my library settigs to “prefer file” for compositions I expect Roon to do exactly that. But yet there are so many cases that I reported in the past, where this preference is just ignored.

I must admit that I’ve occasionally had similar problems.

[Frank_Daman]

My client’s software is already in use in other domains. If they ever branch out into music, I’ll ping you.

However, they don’t develop end user applications. They provide full integration of their software for end user applications (API only).

[Frank_Daman]

@bbrip

Agreed, there is a portion of exaggeration. You need that to get attention - and Roon understands that concept quite well from looking at their marketing claims - that got me here in the first place.

The experience is way below satisfying. And I have yet to discover how and why “Roon understands my music”.

Like minds. I’ve got the same feeling.

[Mike_O_Neill]

When I tried Carnaval , I got my local copies that I could navigate , the split seconds later the Recordings on Tidal . he speed maybe a localized thing especially with current bandwidth usage of various lock-downs.

I am in South Africa and we don’t have Qobuz yet so I can’t comment on speed specifically.

Could I also suggest an alternative way of getting to the work you want

The Composition view is quite good, rather than using search which as you are discovering is a bit of a blunt instrument.

Open up type Schumann in the Filter Funnel along side Composer.

Now in the filter funnel next top composition type Car and you are straight to Carnval , click the Hyperlink

And you see all the recordings in your and Qobuz (Tidal) Library. Admittedly it still loads all the recordings but in my case this took less than a second for 21 in my library and 423 in Tidal

There are many ways of getting to where you want to get in Roon , some better than others.

I found that I had to rethink my navigation methods initially to I was used to

Composer> Genre > Artist > Album

I now go

Composition View > Composer > Composition

In the case of say Mozart , Type Mozart, Symp and you get all Symphonies then click to get all Recordings of a specific symphony.

If you are open to suggestions there are many ways that can be suggested to ease your learning curve , as you have seen above Tony, Klauss and many others have had to find ways around . In the end there is nothing out there better than Roon so it proves worth the effort. For example read the KB on Tags and Bookmarks , these are good ways of saving real favourites (in my case Beethoven Piano Sonatas) for easy access

I don’t deny highlighting shortcomings (by suggesting Feature Requests) is the way of getting improvement but I may be “rude” moaning before you have mastered the basics will not endear you to the devs or the community in general .

We are here to help, many users have 5 years or of experience , I have 3 plus many years before that in digital audio. Draw on our experience by all means but constructively.

Roon is not perfect but once you have mastered the quirks , as with any software, you will find it a good experience. Keep asking questions and advice.

No Offence Meant

Mike

[bbrip]

Two, three secons I’d guess. Too much for a sarisfactory enduser experience anyway. My Wifi / Internet is very fast. No problems elsewhere.

The point is more: I want to find a piece in my library not in some Qobuz matches

[Jez]

@Mike_O_Neill

Composition View > Composer > Composition

In the case of say Mozart , Type Mozart, Symp and you get all Symphonies then click to get all Recordings of a specific symphony.

When I do that and arbitrarily pick Symphony 31, Roon find four entries in my library, three of which are movements from the same symphony. So that’s a fail. Roon also says there are 159 possibilities on Qobuz, many of which are similarly small excerpts. So that’s a fail.

I appreciate you want to be helpful. So please can you be helpful and tell me how I find complete performances of the composition in question?

[bbrip]

@Klaus_Kammerer1

I do understand why so many people could not be happier with Roon, but for my personal use case, it has developed into quite a nuisance. Minim Server could be a viable alternative but then I would need to find a way around my existing endpoints which are based on raspberry pi setups. I did not investigate yet in that direction.

I am using Minimserver with LUMIN App since 6 or 7 years (Linn control points tend to suck…). Great combo. Superb support. Like you, my tags are quite well maintained, down to composition level. I do find things instantly. And if I search for composer “Arnold”, I really only get stuff by Malcolm Arnold - and not a jumble-mumble of Arnold Schönberg, Arnold Bax - and maybe one or two lucky matches by Malcolm Arnold…

Have a look at the MinimServer Forum. There are users that have put the ohNET framework (openHome standard developed by Linn) running on a Raspi to emulate a Linn-Streamer. So it seems possible, although I haven’t done this myself. My skills are only just good enough to have Homebridge running on a Rapsi quite nicely

[Mike_O_Neill]

I take it’s a local copy , what does the album view itself show I would suspect movements not indented

try adding the Movement/ Part names externally

Once again dodgy metadata

I don’t say Roon is perfect , but not as bad as it’s being made out to be

Like any software GIGO , Roon is dependent on third party metadata which is unlikely to improve

The odd bit of grooming helps

[Klaus_Kammerer1 (Klaus)]

@Mike_O_Neill

The odd bit of grooming helps

but there are still cases where it doesn‘t… You can have fully maintained work and part tags and library set to „prefer file“ and Roon still does not show your Work based on the tag.
Funnily enough, I have cases where the „prefer file“ works for the track title in playing now, while work and part are displayed differently.
So I have my tags set as WORK and PART and my track title as WORK: PART and Roon shows my track title as WORK: PART while completely ignoring my separate WORK and PART tags. I can groom my tags all I want - Roon keeps giving me the finger…