Core Machine: Roon Nucleus w/4TB SSD; Roon version1.7 (build 571) Network Details: Modem is pakedgedevice&software Model RE-2, Router is Arris TM722; Nucleus is connected to network via Ethernet cable. Ipad controls Nucleus through Wifi. Audio Devices: Nucleus plays through Ayre Codex DAC
My setup is I use Roon software with Nucleus as the Core, connected via high-end USB cable to an Ayre Codex DAC which then goes via Balanced cables to a Classe CP-700 pre-amp and Classe CA-2300 power amp.
Description of Problem:
After this setup worked flawlessly for months, the problem I have been having now is that the Nucleus will just go silent sometimes, and other times emit medium-loud static (sounds like a radio that isn’t tuned to a station), even though my ipad controller looks like it is still playing the selected song. This typically happens within an hour or so of playing music and then happens sporadically. Not sure this is relevant, but most of the time when this happens the rate displayed on the DAC switches to 88.2 (and I don’t think that’s the actual rate of the selected song). After this happens, I can usually get the music to play again by skipping to the next song.
I have ruled out the Classe units being part of the problem by playing other devices through the Calsse pre-amp inputs that I use for the Nucleus/DAC and having no problem. I have ruled out the Ayre Codex DAC being the problem by swapping in other DACs and still having the same problem as described above. We have also replaced the operating system of the Nucleus and that did not solve the problem. Lastly, I have borrowed another file player to replace the Nucleus and that works fine. So we are sure the problem lies within the Nucleus.
Given the above fact pattern, I am assuming I will need to send the Nucleus in to you for service, but I am happy to try other fixes if you think there are any that might work. Assuming I need to send it in, please provide me with the address to send it to and the process I need to follow and I will send it in.
Thank you very much in advance for your assistance.
This is Tim again, the guy who entered this post yesterday. I am new to the Roon Support process so am just wondering what to expect regarding a reply from Roon on my problem. Can anybody give me an idea of the typical # of days it takes to get a reply? Is there any way to contact a live person at Roon directly? I am not at all complaining-- love the Roon/Nucleus product and I understand it will take some time for my situation to be addressed. I’m just not familiar with this process and since I’m pretty sure I will need to send in my Nucleus for service, I am anxious to get that part of the process going. Thanks in advance.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for your patience while your report has reached my queue, I’d be happy to take a look over this issue with you!
These symptoms sound very strange, let’s start off by verifying if another zone exhibits this symptom.
Can I please ask that you try to output to your iPad’s internal speakers and verify if this issue occurs there?
Please try to play to your iPad zone for as long as it takes to usually enter this state. You can enable the iPad speakers output by going to Roon Settings -> Audio on the iPad Roon app and enable the top iPad zone.
Thank you very much for reaching out to me so quickly. I wasn’t familiar with the support process so it feels much better to have a live person I can communicate with. I look forward to working with you on this.
When I first started having this problem a few days ago, I tried the ipad output and it seemed to work fine there, but I will try again to make sure.
Just wanted to let you know that I tried the ipad test and it seems to be playing okay on the ipad, but I haven’t had enough time to play it enough to make sure it won’t have the same problems on the ipad. Unfortunately, now I have to be out of town for a week so I will have to pick this back up when I get back around August 10. Sorry for the delay and thanks in advance for your patience.
I’m been back from vacation for a few days now and have now thoroughly tested the Nucleus playing through my iPad speakers, as you suggested. I played it for a couple of days straight and found no problem whatsoever during that time so apparently my problems only happen when the Nucleus is playing through a DAC.
Do you have any more troubleshooting suggestions, or do you think it now makes sense to send in the Nucleus for repairs?
Thank you again for your continued help with this.
If this issue only occurs when the DAC is in use and not through the iPad, then I believe this could be an issue with either the USB output on the Nucleus or the audio gear attached to it.
Very rarely have I heard of intermittent USB port issues, so I suggest that we focus on the gear attached to it and eliminate some possibilities there.
Which other DAC did you try? It sounds here like you might have replaced the Codex but what other pieces of equipment remained the same? Did you also try using a different USB cable? Different port on the Nucleus and that had the same issue?
Does this happen with both of the DACs you tried (the sample rate issue)? Does this happen after playing certain kind of material (MQA/DSD/ect) or when switching between different sample rates (44 -> 48 or 48 -> 96) on the DAC?
I’d also like to look into diagnostics on your Nucleus, next time this issue occurs, please just note the exact local time + date + track it occurs on and I can enable diagnostics mode for your account.
Thanks for the quick response. Here are the responses to your questions:
The other DAC I tried and am using now (on loan from my local Audio dealer) is a Berkely Audio Design Alpha DAC. Because this DAC doesn’t have a USB in put, I am also using an M2Tech Hiface Evo Digital Audio Interface (also on loan) to get the USB signal from the Nucleus to the Berkely DAC.
I also swapped out the USB cable and am having the same issue regardless of what USB cable I use.
The only other equipment involved here is my Classe pre-amp and amp, and my speakers, and I have already eliminated any of those pieces being the problem
I have not really been paying attention to which port I have been using on the Nucleus so I will try both ports over the next day or so and see if that makes any difference.
The sample rate issue happened with both DACs. I don’t think the issue is caused by different kinds of material or different sample rates, but I will try to watch that as I continue testing.
Lastly, as you suggest, I will note the time and date and track it occurs on next time the issue comes up so you can enable the Diagnostics. Question: By “track it occurs on” do you just mean the Artist and the Song, or are you looking for something else?
Thanks again for your prompt attention to this. Given all that we’ve discussed so far, it wouldn’t surprise me if it was a USB port issue on the Nucleus, as you suggest, but we’ll keep trying to narrow it down.
I have some more information. So that you can enable the Diagnostics, wanted to let you know the date and times of the failures I had last night:
On Friday, 8/14 at approximately 7:50 PM CENTRAL, after playing successfully for over an hour, playback went silent while playing The Wayfarer by Bruce Springsteen and Scott Tibbs. The song was 44.1, but the Berkely DAC showed 88.2.
When I skipped to the next track, Oh So Sweet by Gordon Lightfoot, around 7:52 PM CENTRAL playback became loud static.This song was 44.1, but DAC showed 88.2.
When I skipped to the next track, Song for Our Daughter, around 7:53 PM CENTRAL, it played okay. This song was 44.1 and DAC showed 44.1.
Skipping to the next track, Dimples by Van Morrison, around 7:55 PM CENTRAL, playback was loud static. Song was 48khz 24 bit, MQA 96 and DAC showed 96.
Skipping to the next track, Lightning Man by the Pretenders, around 7:55 PM CENTRAL, playback was loud static. Song was 44.1 and DAC showed 88.1.
Skipping to the next track, Time is Never on Our Side by Steve Earle and the Dukes, around 7:56 PM CENTRAL, playback went silent. Song was 44.1 and DAC showed 44.1.
After all this, I gave up and listened to vinyl.
All of the above was using the LOWER USB port on the Nucleus.
Hopefully, that helps. I will now switch to the upper USB port on the Nucleus and see what happens.
I have now tested the upper USB port on the Nucleus and the issue is just as bad. In case it’s helpful for diagnostic purposes, here’s what happened:
On Saturday 8/15 at around 9:30 am CENTRAL, after playing okay for about an hour, the Nucleus just stopped playing after the track Treat Yo’ Mama by John Butler Trio (it actually stopped playing instead of going to the next track rather than just going silent and showing on my ipad that it is playing the next track, as it typically does).
When I skipped to the next track, around 9:33 AM CENTRAL, it played LOUD STATIC while playing Guess I’m Doing Fine by Beck. The song was FLAC 48khz, MQA 192khz and the DAC showed 96.
At around 9:35 AM CENTRAL, I skipped to the next track and it went SILENT while playing At this Point in my Life by Tracy Chapman. Song was FLAC 44.1 khz 16 bit. DAC showed 44.1.
9:38 AM CENTRAL, next track of Dodo by Dave Matthews played SILENT. Song was FLAC 44.1 khz 16 bit and DAC showed 44.1.
9:39 AM CENTRAL, I skipped to next track of Believe by Lenny Kravitz and it played LOUD STATIC. Song was FLAC 48khz 24 bit, MQA 192khz and DAC showed 96.
9:40 AM CENTRAL, I skipped to next track of Run Baby Run by Sheryl Crow and it PLAYED OKAY. Song was FLAC 48 khz 24 bit, MQA 192khz and DAC showed 44.1.
9:41 AM CENTRAL, I skipped to the next track of Hold You in my Arms by Ray LaMontagne and it PLAYED OKAY. Song was FLAC 44.1 khz 16 bit and DAC showed 44.1.
9:43 AM CENTRAL, Got Soul by Robert Randolph & the Family Band PLAYED OKAY. Song was FLAC 44.1khz 16 bit and DAC showed 44.1.
9:48 AM CENTRAL, Round Here by Counting Crows played LOUD STATIC. Song was FLAC 48 khz 24 bit MQA 192khz. DAC showed 96.
9:50 AM CENTRAL, Down in the Flood by Derek Trucks Band PLAYED OKAY. Song was FLAC 44.1 16 bit and DAC showed 44.1.
9:51 AM CENTRAL, I skipped to Taylor by Jack Johnson and it played LOUD STATIC. Song was FLAC 48khz 24 bit, MQA 96 khz and DAC showed 96. When I paused the playback of the loud static and then hit Play, the track actually played then.
Around 10:15 AM CENTRAL, Roon stopped playing altogether and said it had “Lost Connection”. After failing to reconnect, I found that the Core had somehow switched to my computer rather than the Nucleus and when I switched the Core back to the Nucleus, it did reconnect. After it reconnected, it told me I had updates available, which I have not accepted yet.
Not sure what more I can do. Both USB ports clearly have the problem. Any other suggestions? How long do you think you need to run the diagnostics? I don’t want to rush this process, and am happy to do a little more troubleshooting, but if we think it will need to be sent in for repairs, I would like to get that process going as soon as we can.
Again, many thanks for your continued help. I really do appreciate it.
Just wanted to check in to see if you have any thoughts on my last three messages. Sorry to be a pest-- just anxious to keep things moving so I can get back to enjoying my Roon Nucleus as soon as possible.
Thanks for those timestamps and for your patience here. I’ve enabled diagnostics mode and I can confirm that the log report has been received.
I am looking over the log report and none of your timestamps or tracks played are there. Are you certain that you were using the Nucleus as the Core and not perhaps another PC on the same network?
If you navigate to Roon Settings -> General, what do you see as the Core listed? It should say the Nucleus, if you are using it just as a bridge and keeping the Core on another PC, I would suggest switching the Nucleus to the Core (Disconnect -> Choose Nucleus from “Choose your Core” list).
Unfortunately, you are right. The Core was set to my PC rather than the Nucleus. Given the trouble I was having with the Nucleus, I borrowed and had been using for a few days a different Roon endpoint which used my PC as the Core— then when I hooked the Nucleus back up to do the additional testing, I switched the audio Settings to the DAC connected to the Nucleus, but forgot to change the Core. So I guess all my diligent time stamp recording went to waste.
I just switched the core back to the Nucleus as you suggested. For diagnostic purposes, I assume you need me to run it again and give you some more time stamp info for tracks that don’t play correctly? I should be able to do that later today.
I think I have some good info now. Here are some time stamps with relevant info.
8/19/20 at around 3:53 PM CENTRAL: I wasn’t home, but my wife said it went to static around 3:53 pm CENTRAL. She did not note track info.
8/20/20 at 10:06 AM CENTRAL: The next period I was able to listen closely was this morning. After about an hour of so of playing okay, The Grammy Song by Johnny Copeland came up and it went to STATIC. Song was FLAC 44.1 khz 24 bit, MQA 44.1 khz and DAC read 88.2.
8/20/20 at 10:10 AM CENTRAL: I let the last song play out in static and it went to Lawdy Lawdy Lawdy by Glenn Lane and playback went SILENT. Song was FLAC 44.1 khz 16 bit and DAC read 44.1.
8/20/20 at 10:14 AM CENTRAL: I let the last song play out silently and it went to Down in New Orleans by Tab Benoit and play back was still SILENT. Song was FLAC 44.1 khz 16 bit and DAC read 44.1.
8/20/20 at 10:15 AM CENTRAL: I skipped to the next track which was Going to That City by Angela Strehli and playback was still SILENT. Song was FLAC 44.1 khz 16 bit and DAC read 44.1.
8/20/20 at 10:17 AM CENTRAL: I skipped through 3-4 more tracks, all of which were SILENT. Then at 10:17 AM CENTRAL I landed on Killing Floor by Percy Strother and it went to STATIC rather than silence. Song was AAC 22 khz 24 bit and DAC read 44.1.
8/20/20 at 10:18 AM CENTRAL: I skipped to Without Warning by Sue Foley and it went back to SILENT. Song was FLAC 44.1 khz 16 bit and DAC said 44.1.
8/20/20 at 10:19 AM CENTRAL: I skipped to Directly From My Heart by Charlie Musselwhite and Robben Ford and it went back to STATIC. Song was AAC 44.1 khz 24 bit and DAC said 44.1.
8/20/20 at 10:20 AM CENTRAL: I skipped through a few more tracks and they went back to SILENT. I then stopped the process and paused playback.
I know this is more than you asked for, but I’m hoping this gives you enough so that we don’t have to do any more testing and I can send it in for repairs. Can you let me know? I have borrowed a different Roon end point to use temporarily so if we are done testing the Nucleus I would like to swap out the Nucleus so I can enjoy music again while it is being fixed.