To be quite honest, I don’t post much since acquiring Roon so how do I subscribe to threads (like this one) that I want to be notified when there’es a new post? Never could figure this out for some reason??? Do I add it as a Bookmark? Tracking?
Joseph
I am positive on this feature and I listened to this mode in the past: 20K local library only. Seems I may be missing out w/o linking a streaming account.
I like the thumbs up/down ability to filter a future list of songs (or not…sometimes I just let it surprise me and hit skip if needed).
I like listening to Roon Radio (the Pandora/Genius feature) and am optimistic this will evolve in a positive way…although I may need to link some form of streamer account.
Good to see the “now playing” screen getting attention… I think there is more that can be done with it. I would like to click on the album art and sequence through my pics of back cover, etc. without having to exit now playing and then return. It would be cool to even have some option to slide show.
The data that does come up is a start (album review, etc.) but the album star rating and especially noting if the track was an AMG pick would be helpful.
AI could be a fun journey and helps me enjoy my library which can easily bury things I didn’t know I had.
Here is what came up after playing “Dead Flowers” by Rolling Stones. Seems this is old logic?
Random would mix major genres (jazz followed by metal). AI is mostly staying in major genre. I need to experience more outside Pop/Rock. Here is my library.
I don’t know if the songs chosen from an album have any intelligence based on AMG picks, user plays, etc. The 30 seconds of clapping and spoken word song intro as a track scared me on the older release.
Never mind my last post.
An observation: if I tell Radio a track from a given album by a specific artist “doesn’t fit,” recommendations from that album should drastically diminish in frequency. I’m finding myself giving thumbs down to virtually every track on a handful of albums despite the initial rejection.
Has anyone tried Radio with Classical?
I seeded with a Schubert Lieder. What I was hoping was that the AI would would use Classical Lieder as a core and reach out into maybe French Melodie, British/American Art Song and maybe a few Lieder transcriptions for Cello or Clarinet for variety. But what has come back is mostly a lot of big Orchestral music. Symphonies, Violin Concertos. And also a few big Vocal pieces, an Opera and an Oratorio, for example. I cannot see any relation to the original seed or any consistent mood except that everything was “Classical”.
I tried thumbs down about 30 times on the upcoming queue until I finally got to a Bryn Terfel song recital. That required 60+ plus clicks. One each for “doesn’t fit” and another for “not related”. It took another 60+ plus clicks to get to the next song pick so I just got fed up with it. I just have the impression the AI is not really able to distinguish much beyond a track is Classical and is just randomizing those?
Went back to pop and picked some Smiths which would have been the Indie of mine and my wife’s youth. So we were expecting similar from that era that we were all listening to in the day. And that is exactly what Radio does but I was expecting it to reach out into something more contemporary I didn’t know and it doesn’t seem to be doing that. I can see a big difference with pop is that unlike Classical I am very reluctant to use the thumbs down. I like the picks. I would just like to be challenged a bit as well.
Is there a way to exclude Tidal MQA tracks from Radio play?
Not at the moment I think.
Suggestion: Would be nice if Radio preferred a local version of a track, even if it first selects it from Tidal. I’m seeing a lot of tracks from Tidal that I already have in my library at the same resolution. This is using up internet bandwidth unnecessarily.
Not a big deal for me right now as my connection is unmetered, but I see metering and caps in the future and I’m guessing there are others already there.
If you look at the bottom right of your screenshot you will see “Roon Radio limited to Library” . I don’t know how you got there, but if you hit the 3 dot edit at the top right of your screen (next to Roon Radio) you should see a switch to turn that off.
Brian
I’m loving the radio function! But I’m nervous of clicking the ‘Thumbs Up’ button as I don’t want the algorithm to narrow my choice to stuff I already like - theres so much out there! 
Yeah, I like this feature too. But yes, if you want to find the 44.1kHz version, sometimes it takes a few more clicks. As you said, first world problems. Actually, I’d like to have the option of only playing 44.1kHz. I don’t like changes between bitrates. They sound different. I’ve actually implemented a filter to up/down sample everything, so that when I listen to “radio”, everything sounds about the same.
I hit the 3 dots and see the menu. I assume my limitation is that I don’t have a TIDAL nor Qobuz subscription (thus local only) which also seems to be required to use the new AI logic (vs hit a switch and activate new AI logic). When Qobuz is available in USA I will experiment with the free trial. I am on the beta wait list.
I want to use enhanced AI on my local library of 20,000 albums more than I want to explore outside it but there are times when some supplements would be interesting.
Thanks. That makes sense but I wonder if 20k albums is in the 1% where local might actually work with new AI. Perhaps a low rez/low cost subscription will trigger the new AI and still a majority of plays from my local library which would be preferred. Getting low rez Qobuz versions of HiRez I have in local would not make sense. A modest supplement of low rez songs I don’t own that fit my interests would. It seems mainstream is to pay for the $300/yr hirez subscription but it just seems like I would be paying for stuff I already bought and I don’t always prefer the cloud version. I also want to enjoy the 385,000 tracks I already bought (many of which aren’t in a streamer) vs. spending most of my time exploring the 39million I haven’t 
I can enjoy the old local radio too but there is a sense that the innovation focus is on streaming so I’m trying to work with the local library features already present and find a compromise in embracing streaming. I see the value in mobility already and 320 quality seems fine for that.
I have no concept of how this training is going to work over time. My hope is enough thumbs downs will eventually teach radio that tracks similar to, say, Grant Green are (for me) primarily jazz guitar tracks. I don’t know if this a realistic expectation.
Perhaps a “Too many from this album already” option needs to exist for the polling.
Oh I guess I can start radio from a tag, was that always the case? If that pulls from Tidal now too that would do it. Trying that for jazz guitar.
It won’t limit your algorithm.
@brian wrote about this: I got the impression that thumbs-down personalizes the algorithm to avoid specific stuff, but thumbs-up doesn’t really do anything because the algorithm is based on large-scale data, not your preferences.
Don’t know but I imagine you would have to listen to each of your 20,000 tracks 1,000 times to train it. Will take some time…
That’s the whole point of modern AI, it’s all about cloud-scale data. Unlike what we tried to do when I was young.
One interesting story: for 40 years we tried to do machine translation by writing grammatical rules and hand-editing vocabularies and ontologies, with scant success. But with the new internet-based machine learning techniques, after the Haiti earthquake disaster, Microsoft Research built a bi-directional English/Haitian Creole translator in four days and seven hours. Actually they had their machines build it.
