Roon search sucks, please improve

(Serge Libotte) #1

Guys, we are Google users and we know how good it is. Lookup Youtube for a song and it comes right away whatever you did wrong. I’m an IT guy and I wonder why the Roon search engine could be so bad. Many friends wanted to sign for Roon until they saw the pain it was with searching.
Guys, this is really THE thing you have to improve.

9 Likes
#2

I don’t believe the comparison between Google, a pioneer in AI with near unlimited computing power that tailors results based on accrued context, and a desktop application is fair.

5 Likes
(Mike) #3

Can you give us some examples of what you’re searching for, and what you’re expecting @Serge_Libotte?

We’re working on some changes, but specifics help us confirm we’re on the right track.

In any event, we appreciate the feedback!

(JohnV) #4

If you were writing to vent, message received loud and clear.

If you were hoping to improve things, details are helpful. For example, what part “sucks”: the time it takes; the “sucky” results? Is it sucky all the time, some of the time? Is it an artist search, or a composition search? etc etc. Any screenshots of a particularly poor search?

These types of details might help the upgrade process.

5 Likes
(Ged) #5

In your opinion…

(bevan court) #6

I’ve always found it will find what I’m looking for if I spell it right. Google makes us lazy…

2 Likes
(JohnV) #7

Referring to Serge’s opinion, I assume. It couldn’t be mine; it’s unassailable! :slight_smile:

(Scott G) #8

Specific example:
Find this track


Search “All That Matters”. View All Tracks. Nothing.
Filter by Reelsoul. Nothing.
New Search. Search for Reelsoul. Nothing.
New Search. Mark Di Meo.
Now it shows up.
If you know the answer before you start searching, you can find it. Don’t search for the track. Search under the second artist.
OR you need to know that you have to use the search “All That Matters Reelsoul”. Why wouldn’t that work when I have the tracks and filter by Reelsoul?

4 Likes
#9

In the one example you’ve provided (searching for the name of a song), surely that works. I’ve been using roon for years and never had that kind of simple search fail at all after untold thousands of searches.

On the other hand, if that is actually failing for you, it sounds like something might be seriously wrong (like a corrupt database). If that were the case, it might be more of a tech support issue than a product feature issue.

As others have said, detailed examples would help.

(JohnV) #10

how about this?

Just in case it matters, I currently subscribe to Qobuz and TIDAL so that may have improved my odds, dunno.

(Scott G) #11

Yes, I know that works. That’s what I said in my post.
What doesn’t work is searching for just the track. Even if you search for the track and then use the funnel filter “reelsoul” it doesn’t show up.
I also use Tidal and Qobuz.
I suspect that if one searches for the track alone it is presenting a list of what Roon thinks is the closest match (based on some sort of criterium). But the list is finite, so when I apply the filter ‘reelsoul’ it isn’t among the finite number of choices and comes up blank.

The point is that you shouldn’t need to keep banging away at different options to find a track. Who wants to type in the track and artist everytime? Actually, what makes it frustrating is that Search usually works. So you don’t think you’ll have to use all that stuff.
I’d say I run into issues maybe once every four to six weeks. So its not like its totally broken. But there is room for improvement and @mike is looking for areas to fine tune.

3 Likes
(JohnV) #12

Sorry for the quick read. I take back my post. It does suck. :slight_smile:

And what you said last is particularly true. The sucky search is about once a month. From a coding point of view, that’s got to be hard to troubleshoot.

3 Likes
(Junhua Huang) #13

Search “All That Matters”? Works for me, maybe because I just have a fast and reliable internet like most of us?

(Tony) #14

I agree. This sort of issue is all too common and drives me nuts sometimes. Of course, the more detail you add to a search the greater chance of a typo, then you have zero chance usually of finding anything.

(Ged) #15

Indeed. I wouldn’t dare to assail you.

(Mike) #16

I think it’s been established that local library search is fine, it’s when you integrate with tidal/qobuz that things go south - which is also going to be affected by any DNS and ISP lag. I don’t use either, search is ok, but as @grossmsj points out, you still kinda need to know what you’re after in order to find it. Perhaps search machines have spoiled our expectations with their clever AI algorithms?

1 Like
(Scott G) #17

Well, I for one am spoiled by search engines.
But I don’t think the example I cited is necessarily a search engine flaw. In that example, virtually every track had either the exact title or some version of it. I suspect that if I got the opportunity to see every ‘hit’ with “All That Matters” as a track title I would have seen it in an extended listing.
It looks like Roon has made a choice to limit the number of views of tracks with an exact match AND also prioritized some tracks over others. So those are design choices if I’m correct.
Personally, I think that if your search is an exact match for an Artist, Album, or Track you should be able to see that match, somehow. Of course, if only a couple words match or there are spelling errors that calls for a higher level of search performance. I’m not asking for that in this situation.

(Mike) #18

But honestly, it should be expected. Who can spell? And if the “hit” is only a missed keyboard press away then why not? There must be some AI involved.

(Marc Yun) #19

As a software guy I can tell you searching is one of the hardest things to get right, particularly for sparse data that is loosely normalized at best. It’s already been pointed out how preposterous the Google comparison is so I won’t belabor it. It’s not even a matter of “AI” (a terribly misused term), it’s just technically very, very complex and expensive to improve for generalized use cases.

Not saying there isn’t room for improvement but just had to stick up for the software guys for once. :slight_smile:

4 Likes
(Craig Palmer) #20

Having run a couple companies that had to develop and deploy search at scale, I couldn’t agree more. It’s very hard to get right, you need very specialized engineering expertise that is in high demand and it can be expensive to deploy. Having said that I hope roon can do better but I do empathize with them given the challenge.

1 Like