Roon slow with playback (loading/changing songs) both local and Tidal and generating overviews

Hi @noris finished setting up the database.

First conclusions:

  • songs from own library are slow (might be because system is still analyzing songs
  • songs from Tidal extremely slow (unbearable waiting times)

As it seems no performance win from a fresh setup

Hi @Jilco_Schuurmans ,

Thanks for trying the fresh database here!

Can you please check after the “activity spinner” has been completed?
image

You can also disable audio analysis under Roon Settings → Library, I would suggest disabling both on-demand and background analysis in case this is using up all the QNAP resources.

Hi @noris I now made sure the Roon Core is fully done and dusted. I turned off any song analysis etc.

Tidal → still suffers from lengthy time to skip between files > 25 secs
Local → very mixed performance <4 secs for some <20 for others (especially skipping between tidal and local) No consistency in performance between analysed files and non analysed files. Only when I turn on file analyzes on the fly the waiting times go above 30 sec

When the Roon core is busy with e.g. adding a new album, analysing files, making adjustments to the library the local file performance also goes > 30 sec before playback (limited impact on Tidal files they stay equally slow). Also browsing my collection becomes very very slow as well as screen build ups and applying e.g. filters on tracks

Hopefully this gives more insights

@noris Quick one if I would like to use this new library I have now on my NAS going forward how do I bring back my playlists and liked tracks etc from the ‘old library’?

thanks for letting me know

@noris / @support can you please follow up on my previous question as I would like to avoid my old library and new library start to diverge too much
thx

Hello @Jilco_Schuurmans ,

Apologies for the slow response here.

This data would be tied to your previous Roon database, and you would need to perform a backup + restore from one Core to the other one to restore the likes/playlists. We have instructions on how to perform this database migration in the following guide:

Hope this helps!

@noris on your recommendation I setup a fresh library which performs better vs my old one. If I do a normal restore of a backup I effectively get my old library back which has performance issues. Can we find a way to just bring in likes, playlists etc?

Hello @Jilco_Schuurmans ,

Unfortunately, restoring the database is an “all or nothing” kind of situation, and your likes and Roon-created playlists are tied to your database. Unless you have created these playlists via a streaming service (TIDAL/Qobuz), there is no way to import just the playlist.

Based on your response here though, it sounds like the fresh database hasn’t really helped with the issue too much?

Do you by any chance have mobile hotspot capabilities on your phone? I suggest that we test on a different network altogether with the new database just to eliminate the current network setup as a potential variable, would you be able to perform this test? Thanks!

Hi Noris, my Nucleus+ and QNAP run on the same network.
With the fresh database and now with all the processing done it performs a whole lot better then in the past. The Nucleus+ still has an edge but not much. Hence my ask on how to make the fresh copy my new master incl the old likes etc.

I just ran a restore onto the new location and will be running this one for a few weeks and let’s see what it does. For now I can rule out the network as my Nucleus+ did perform whilst my QNAP didn’t

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Unfortunately the slowness is back :frowning:. The system worked well for a while. Nothing changed in either the system setup or the network. Only some more tracks got added to Roon. Really disappointing

Memory usage is also off the scale 15gb

My hopes and fears are similar.

Commonalities (with many other customers)

Problems with a large library, but not always these unbearable delays. Problems are temporarily gone, but come back. A new database doesn’t really help when the old large amount of data gets back in there and likes and playlists disappear. Remote still responds, but also sluggish when the core hangs or shows major delays. New database entries and data analysis make everything slower. With 16 GB, the start-up phase of Roon-Core (1.4 million titles) on a Windows 10 machine still succeeds with 96% RAM utilisation. In continuous operation it is then constantly around 70% and even with that I have already triggered a lot of gaming joy, searching and finding…triggered. Just not permanently and free of problems.

Differences:

In my case, everything is connected directly to the router and I don’t operate a high-performance NAS or a modern player.

My analysis strategy to find backgrounds:

Use several operating systems, several core machines and several libraries alternately in the same network. Turn off IPv6 and use any other network advice in this forum. Do nothing else with the Roon Core at the same time. Use powerful processors and lots of RAM.

Results for 60,000 to 70,000 selected titles (favourites).
Small libraries are used responsively under macOS, Windows10 (Home and Pro), Linux (Manjaro, Ubuntu, Mint…) and Android (tablet+phone) are also responsive. Manual title changes in frequent succession slow down the system when Qobuz or Tidal are involved.

Building a large library is very fast from the first directly connected hard drive, regardless of whether 300,000 or 400,000 titles are read in. With each additional hard drive, the performance drops considerably. From the 4th hard disk onwards, it becomes a waiting game that can take weeks. This important observation applies to Roon 1.7 and 1.8 at the same time. The new metadata optimiser seems to need some more resources.

I do not observe an explosion of memory requirements on the fly. Other users (MacOS and Linux based on Debian/Ubuntu) report this.

Contrary to what is described here, I have no NAS, no switch and no modern network player or high-performance DAC in use. Here, the good old sound comes directly from the PC jack or via a 30 € USB DAC to old HIFI components (Sonoro, Grundig V7000, Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro). I can always expand these endpoints later when the big system is running smoothly. Fascination and frustration are close together, but the problem description and solution only comes in dialogue with affected customers. This is conducted here convincingly and patiently.

Certainly, the server capacity, the database size, the object and analysis concept with great but processing-intensive link references etc. play an important role in finding a solution. The time and duration of use (perhaps hinting at Roon valence) does not seem uninvolved either.

For the time being, I have adjusted to the fact that major fluctuations in performance will continue and am temporarily creating better responsiveness on my own second system by deregistering the large library and registering the smaller library. I wonder if this will end well today.

I would be delighted if it succeeds and does not start all over again every day.

The proposed principle of renaming data Roon to Roon_old and restarting can also be changed to Roon_big and Roon_fast. The same applies to each data source that could become its own database Hard disk 1 = Roon_1, hard disk 2 = Roon_2…if you have all the data of an artist, genre or other desired classification on one hard disk, you can then also use them alternately in a more responsive way and Likes, playlists remain there without performance problems.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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@support to ensure performance is not an issue I restored a backup onto a new system (AMD ryzen 9 5950x, 64 gb ram, 4TD M2, 8TB ssd)

The system keep crashing whilst importing new songs. How can I discover why?

thx for letting me know

Hi @Jilco_Schuurmans ,

What operating system is the AMD running, Windows or Linux? Are you able to please reproduce the crash and send a set of Roon/RoonServer Logs for reivew? Thanks!

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@noris I did an extensive assessment of the log files and found that one single file kept crashing the library construction. Took the file out to test and the library completed incl all the analysis. For testing I converted the file that crashed the system time and time again from .mp3 to .flac. Interestingly enough the file got nicely absorbed in the library.

Just worried about the impact a single file can have importing a large library. Let me know if you want the file as well for testing purposes to understand why it can cause failure

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Hi @Jilco_Schuurmans ,

Thank you for the update here!

This does sound like the .mp3 file was the issue here, preventing the scanning from completing.

Yes, this would be very helpful and I can ask the QA team to file a ticket regarding the file. I have sent you a private message on where you can upload the file.

Thank you!

Interesting after some testing on the AMD ryzen 9 5950x, 64 gb ram, 4TD M2, 8TB ssd the system seems to perform. Interest what kind of specs are needed to get a large database to perform :frowning:

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Yes we should share good experiences here and thus offer possible solutions to problems.

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