In the last few years I’ve tried different configurations of the what I’ll call the digital end of roon - that is, everything before the DAC. I’d like to be able to say that they all sound the same - which appears to be supported by theory - but they don’t. Comparisons have included Mac Mini vs Nucleus as the core, dCS streamer vs direct USB connection between core and DAC and NAS drive vs SSD connected to the core. All different.
OK, I may be imagining all of it, but I’m sticking with SSD to Nucleus to DAC.
Incidentally, here in the UK, Hi-Fi News, the most respected hi-fi magazine, seems to think that different digital front ends sound different. Just deluded?
In all likelihood, unless you determined the differences using ABX testing, you probably are. That said, ‘SSD to Nucleus to DAC’ sounds like a pretty solid choice.
Now I’m confused. I thought that the theory was that no changes in advance of the DAC should make a difference to the sound. If so, streaming from the NAS vs USB from the Nucleus should be identical. Maybe I’ve misunderstood.
On DaveN’s point, I think that even if, after ABX testing, I concluded that one digital route was better than another, there would still be lots of people on this forum who would tell me that I was mistaken.
I for one think that yes, Roon sounds excellent if, and only if, you take care to never have more than one track in your playback queue. I imagine that this is because queued-up bytes, coming from behind, are impatiently pushing forward, contributing by doing so to a subtle but audible deterioration of sound.
I was joking, just to give an example of the kind of nonsense you arrive at if you think that different bit-perfect digital front-ends can sound differently.
I am ever so happy for you to disagree with me, however that does not change my opinion. Does it matter? No! I enjoy the music and hope you do too. And stick to what I experience.
I’m been quite specific here regarding HDD & SSD. I prefer SSDs because HDDs make a physical noise. I do believe that different DACs can sound different, but again it’s an unproven belief as I’ve never blind tested it. I also suspect that when people hear real differences in digital chains the answer lies in a poorly implemented component somewhere. Competently engineered digital equipment whose only purpose is to transfer data from A to B will faithfully transmit a perfect signal. If drives, Ethernet, USB, etc. sound different then somebody’s doing it wrong.
I don’t know about you, but I hate being wrong, especially when I’ve just assumed something is correct, only to discover subsequently that I was mistaken. So for me it matters, but YMMV.
OK, but you may be begging the question: how do you know that what you have is competently engineered?
Out of curiosity, I tried replacing the “hi-fi” USB cable between the Nucleus and DAC with a cheap cable of the sort used with a scanner or printer. There was an obvious degradation of the sound (less sparkle, less depth etc.) It could be that my DAC (Nagra Classic) is not “competently engineered”, but it’s what I have and I want to get the best out of it.
Of course, you could still say that I imagined the difference in sound between the two cables, and I can’t prove that I didn’t. What I do know is that I won’t be switching back to the cheap cable.
There’s one or more of these threads every year on the forum, usually triggered by an update.
Never goes anywhere apart from the entrenching deepening.
Perhaps call it quits and play some music.
You could, but proper ABX testing is difficult to set up in a home environment. It’s interesting to note that a lot of these arguments could be settled if the companies producing boutique audiophile equipment ran proper ABX tests of their products. They have the resources to do it, and do it properly, but they seem strangely unmotivated to do so. Colour me sceptical, but I don’t expect we’ll be seeing the data any time soon.
Of course it does to me too. But I can happily enjoy the music and not feel disturbed by different opinions. Not everything is so straight forward. CD-players have fault-correction. Decent players are very stable so as to get the maximum quality, because there is little time to re-read data. So they are not bit-perfect. Networked data is moved from cache to cache. But part of the transport is also analog and will include error, which will be corrected but also affects the data. Data following different structures is bound to differ. Anyway, most importantly, I am happy with Roon. It is good enough for me. But so are the alternative sources.
Happy with Roon here, also.
Great software. Probably the best music package available.
It seems many of the ‘Bits are Bits’ crew providing valuable commentary on this and other threads rely solely on theory and opinion, with very little comparison or hardware experience to validate against.
For the love of god please buy, steal, borrow a few streamers, DAC’s, CD players, and digital sources and try for yourself. Experiment with CF cards v’s USB, V’s HDD. Memory vs non memory playback. Try different PC sources, Windows, Mac, Linux, etc.
At least then your opinion will be validated by experience.
Science would be a pretty futile exercise if every fact needed to be checked against personal experience. Also, some of the things you’re suggesting are utterly pointless. Are you really suggesting that it makes a difference to sound quality if your files are stored on a usb drive versus a CF card versus a traditional HDD? Do you have any suggestions as to how that could possibly be the case?
You seem to be forgetting about measurement which, in my opinion, is a lot more reliable than subjective interpretation. Point me at any evidence - even the tiniest, flimsiest shred - that playback from a CF card differs to that from an HDD, or that Linux ‘sounds better’ than Mac OS, and I’ll take your arguments seriously. Until then, I’ll stick to theory, practice and measurement, because one person’s voice to the contrary has no empirical weight.
No, but surely the implication of your comments is that it might? Why else would you suggest comparing the two? Fairly pointless if you already know that they’re bound to ‘sound’ the same.
And these theories are not my theories. Scientific theories aren’t personal. For example, I know that 240V AC can kill you if you’re unlucky enough to get electrocuted. My understanding wouldn’t improve any if I stuck my fingers in the socket to ‘ground’ it (pun intended). By the same token, I don’t need to ‘listen’ to CF cards, because it would make no sense to do so.
To borrow your phrase: for the love of God, please buy, steal or borrow a few textbooks so you can learn about this for yourself.