Roon sound quality issues

Hi @support,

I don’t want to start another “Roon sound vs…” thread, but actually I feel that I have problems and don’t understand how to deal with it. The issue is that I’ve bought Sonore Microrendu two weeks ago, it plays absolutely awesome as DLNA renderer, but I simply cannot listen Roon Ready endpoint for a long time - while sound is definitely not distorted it sounds thin and bright. And even squeezelite sounds better. It’s a surprise for me because I see lot of positive reviews of Roon sound on microrendu. And I have rare pauses between gapless tracks mentioned in this thread Occasional dropouts with Microrendu endpoint
So the question is what could be wrong in my setup? I had network dropouts initially but completely eluminated them by installing gigabit switch. Here is my setup:

  1. Roon Core 1.2 (build 161) on Mac OS X 10.11.4, Mac Mini 2011 Core i7 2.7 Hz, 8Gb RAM, SSD drive, 455 tracks.
  2. Sonore Microrendu 2.3 with Roon Endpoint 1.1.7 connected to Bryston BDA-2 DAC.
  3. Netgear GS-205 switch, standard Cat 5e ethernet cables.

Hi @vladimirkl ------ Can you share some screenshots of you current audio settings, for us to review? Thanks!

-Eric

Not sure if it matters, but the most current Roon Ready version for mR is 1.1.8.

and not sure it matters either but you also might try updating to Mac OS 10.11.6, as there was an issue, in Mac OS 10.11.4, with CoreAudio I/O drivers breaking “integer/direct mode”
(broken again in 10.12, btw)

Not in my case - I stream audio to microrendu

I’ve updated to 1.1.8 but not see any big changes in sound - it’s still much brighter than DLNA

Hi @Eric,
Here are my settings:


And Roon diagnostics form microrendu:
11/01/2016 11:26:00 - ------------------------------------------------------------
11/01/2016 11:26:00 - /opt/RoonReady/raatool logdump 252dd1df-b3c4-4b4b-b05c-d3862fcbc1cd
[0000000] 0.004 TRACE [info] initializing info dictionary
[0000001] 0.006 TRACE [info] inserting raat_version -> 1.1.8
[0000002] 0.025 TRACE [info] inserting protocol_version -> 3
[0000003] 0.045 TRACE [output/alsa] initializing output uniqueid=hw:0,0
[0000004] 0.045 TRACE [output/alsa] preferred buffer duration=0.100000s
[0000005] 0.045 TRACE [output/alsa] force_max_volume=0
[0000006] 0.045 TRACE [output/alsa] resync delay=0.100000s
[0000007] 0.045 TRACE [ALSA] max pcm rate=768000
[0000008] 0.045 TRACE [output/alsa] max dsd rate=256
[0000009] 0.045 TRACE [output/alsa] dsd_mode=none
[0000010] 0.045 TRACE [output/alsa] getting hardware info
[0000011] 0.047 TRACE pcm card id B20
[0000012] 0.047 TRACE pcm card name Bryston USB Audio 2.0
[0000013] 0.047 TRACE pcm card longname Bryston Bryston USB Audio 2.0 at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed
[0000014] 0.047 TRACE pcm card mixername USB Mixer
[0000015] 0.047 TRACE pcm card components USB1db5:0001
[0000016] 0.047 TRACE pcm card driver USB-Audio
[0000017] 0.047 TRACE pcm card usb id 1db5:0001
[0000018] 0.047 TRACE [output/alsa] probing formats
[0000019] 0.054 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] probing formats
[0000020] 0.054 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] device supports channels range 2-2
[0000021] 0.054 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 44100/16/1
[0000022] 0.054 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 44100/24/1
[0000023] 0.054 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 44100/32/1
[0000024] 0.054 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 48000/16/1
[0000025] 0.054 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 48000/24/1
[0000026] 0.054 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 48000/32/1
[0000027] 0.054 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 88200/16/1
[0000028] 0.054 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 88200/24/1
[0000029] 0.054 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 88200/32/1
[0000030] 0.055 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 96000/16/1
[0000031] 0.055 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 96000/24/1
[0000032] 0.055 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 96000/32/1
[0000033] 0.055 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 176400/16/1
[0000034] 0.055 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 176400/24/1
[0000035] 0.055 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 176400/32/1
[0000036] 0.055 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 192000/16/1
[0000037] 0.055 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 192000/24/1
[0000038] 0.055 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 192000/32/1
[0000039] 0.056 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 44100/16/2
[0000040] 0.056 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 44100/24/2
[0000041] 0.056 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 44100/32/2
[0000042] 0.056 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 48000/16/2
[0000043] 0.057 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 48000/24/2
[0000044] 0.057 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 48000/32/2
[0000045] 0.057 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 88200/16/2
[0000046] 0.057 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 88200/24/2
[0000047] 0.057 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 88200/32/2
[0000048] 0.057 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 96000/16/2
[0000049] 0.057 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 96000/24/2
[0000050] 0.057 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 96000/32/2
[0000051] 0.057 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 176400/16/2
[0000052] 0.058 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 176400/24/2
[0000053] 0.065 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 176400/32/2
[0000054] 0.065 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 192000/16/2
[0000055] 0.065 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 192000/24/2
[0000056] 0.065 TRACE [alsa] [hw:0,0] supports PCM format 192000/32/2
[0000057] 0.089 TRACE [output/alsa] initialized
[0000058] 0.089 TRACE [volume/null] initialized
[0000059] 0.090 TRACE [watch/alsa] initializing watch device=hw:0 exit_on_lost=1
[0000060] 0.090 TRACE [watch/alsa] initialized
[0000061] 0.090 TRACE [info] inserting unique_id -> 252dd1df-b3c4-4b4b-b05c-d3862fcbc1cd
[0000062] 0.090 TRACE [info] inserting vendor -> Sonore
[0000063] 0.090 TRACE [info] inserting serial -> 00E14E
[0000064] 0.090 TRACE [info] inserting config_url -> http://SELF/
[0000065] 0.090 TRACE [info] inserting model -> microRendu
[0000066] 0.090 TRACE [info] inserting version -> 1.1.8
[0000067] 0.090 INFO [server] listening on port 55975
[0000068] 0.090 TRACE [discovery] starting
[0000069] 0.091 INFO [discovery] [iface:127.0.0.1] multicast recv socket is bound to 0.0.0.0:9003
[0000070] 0.091 INFO [discovery] [iface:127.0.0.1] multicast send socket is bound to 0.0.0.0:36966
[0000071] 0.091 INFO [discovery] [iface:192.168.1.64] multicast recv socket is bound to 0.0.0.0:9003
[0000072] 0.092 INFO [discovery] [iface:192.168.1.64] multicast send socket is bound to 0.0.0.0:53844
[0000073] 0.092 INFO [discovery] unicast socket is bound to 0.0.0.0:9003
[0000074] 0.092 TRACE [device] announcing DiscoveryMessage[type=QUERY, transactionid=F3018174-0FB4-D153-5E98-14800E85D633, Data={ “unique_id”: “252dd1df-b3c4-4b4b-b05c-d3862fcbc1cd”, “raat_version”: “1.1.8”, “vendor”: “Sonore”, “protocol_version”: “3”, “serial”: “00E14E”, “model”: “microRendu”, “version”: “1.1.8”, “config_url”: “http://SELF/”, “service_id”: “5e2042ad-9bc5-4508-be92-ff68f19bdc93”, “tcp_port”: “55975”, } ]
[0000075] 0.162 TRACE [server] [192.168.1.23:53010] accepted connection
[0000076] 0.191 TRACE [session] [192.168.1.23:53010] created
[0000077] 0.208 TRACE [server] new script with name=base.lua module=base
[0000078] 0.208 TRACE [session] [192.168.1.23:53010] pre-loading lua module base
[0000079] 0.221 TRACE [server] new script with name=dkjson.lua module=dkjson
[0000080] 0.222 TRACE [session] [192.168.1.23:53010] pre-loading lua module dkjson
[0000081] 0.235 TRACE [server] new script with name=protocol.lua module=protocol
[0000082] 0.272 TRACE [session] [192.168.1.23:53010] pre-loading lua module protocol
[0000083] 0.275 TRACE [server] new script with name=roon.lua module=(null)
[0000084] 0.275 TRACE [session] [192.168.1.23:53010] executing lua script
[0000085] 0.282 TRACE [server] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT[LL] [1] {“status”: “Success”}
[0000086] 0.283 TRACE [server] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT[LL] [2] {“status”: “Success”}
[0000087] 0.283 TRACE [server] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT[LL] [3] {“status”: “Success”}
[0000088] 0.293 WARNING [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] failed set recv buffer size: nil
[0000089] 0.293 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] [roon] clock socket listening on udp 0.0.0.0:48021
[0000090] 0.293 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] [roon] audio socket listening on udp 0.0.0.0:48164
[0000091] 0.293 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] [roon] output info {“alsa_device”: {“id”: “B20”, “name”: “Bryston USB Audio 2.0”, “usbid”: “1db5:0001”, “longname”: “Bryston Bryston USB Audio 2.0 at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed”, “mixername”: “USB Mixer”, “components”: “B20”, “driver”: “USB-Audio”}, “config”: {“type”: “alsa”, “dsd_mode”: “none”, “device”: “hw:0,0”, “max_dsd_rate”: 256, “signal_path”: [{“quality”: “lossless”, “method”: “usb”, “type”: “output”}], “max_pcm_rate”: 768000, “buffer_duration”: 0.10000000000000001}}
[0000092] 0.293 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] [roon] volume info {“config”: {“type”: “null”, “optional”: true}}
[0000093] 0.294 TRACE [server] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT[LL] [4] {“status”: “Success”}
[0000094] 0.296 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] GOT [2] {“request”:“info”}
[0000095] 0.309 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [2] {“volume”:{“info”:{“config”:{“optional”:true,“type”:“null”}},“is_supported”:true},“info”:{“unique_id”:“252dd1df-b3c4-4b4b-b05c-d3862fcbc1cd”},“source_selection”:{“info”:[],“is_supported”:false},“output”:{“info”:{“alsa_device”:{“components”:“B20”,“usbid”:“1db5:0001”,“mixername”:“USB Mixer”,“id”:“B20”,“longname”:“Bryston Bryston USB Audio 2.0 at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed”,“driver”:“USB-Audio”,“name”:“Bryston USB Audio 2.0”},“config”:{“type”:“alsa”,“buffer_duration”:0.1,“max_pcm_rate”:768000,“device”:“hw:0,0”,“max_dsd_rate”:256,“dsd_mode”:“none”,“signal_path”:[{“type”:“output”,“method”:“usb”,“quality”:“lossless”}]}},“supported_formats”:[{“sample_rate”:44100,“bits_per_sample”:16,“channels”:1,“sample_type”:“pcm”},{“sample_rate”:44100,“bits_per_sample”:24,“channels”:1,“sample_type”:“pcm”},{“sample_rate”:44100,“bits_per_sample”:32,“channels”:1,“sample_type”:“pcm”},{“sample_rate”:48000,“bits_per_sample”:16,“channels”:1,“sample_type”:“pcm”},{“sample_rate”:48000,"bits_p
[0000096] 0.314 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] GOT [3] {“request”:“subscribe_transport”}
[0000097] 0.315 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] GOT [4] {“request”:“subscribe_controls”}
[0000098] 0.316 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [4] {“status”:“Success”,“action”:“Changed”,“controls”:{“volume”:{“min”:0.0,“type”:“none”,“info”:{“config”:{“optional”:true,“type”:“null”}},“max”:0.0,“step”:1.0,“value”:0,“mute”:false}}}
[0000099] 6.121 DEBUG [discovery] broadcast op is complete
[0000100] 10.748 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] GOT [5] {“request”:“setup”,“format”:{“sample_type”:“pcm”,“sample_rate”:48000,“bits_per_sample”:24,“channels”:2}}
[0000101] 10.748 TRACE alsa output setup: format is pcm 48000/24/2
[0000102] 10.748 TRACE opening [hw:0,0] 48000/24/2
[0000103] 10.750 TRACE prefer larger samples = 0
[0000104] 10.750 TRACE [ALSA] [hw:0,0] using hw pcmformat S32_LE bitspersample 24
[0000105] 10.750 TRACE [ALSA] [hw:0,0] Requesting 2 periods
[0000106] 10.751 TRACE [ALSA] [hw:0,0] Requesting 4800 frames/buffer (2400 frames/period)
[0000107] 10.751 TRACE [ALSA] [hw:0,0] Initialized with 2 periods with 2400 frames/period and 4800 frames/buffer
[0000108] 10.754 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] got output message {“signal_path”: [{“quality”: “lossless”, “type”: “output”, “method”: “usb”}]}
[0000109] 10.756 WARNING sched_setscheduler failed: Operation not permitted
[0000110] 10.756 TRACE samples per buf 2400 ns per buf 50000000 samplerate 48000
[0000111] 10.756 TRACE 2400 samples per buf, 14400 bytes per buf, 19200 bytes per hwbuf
[0000112] 10.756 TRACE [output/alsa] [hw:0,0] waiting for device to be ready
[0000113] 10.757 TRACE [output/alsa] [hw:0,0] device is ready
[0000114] 10.757 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [5] {“message”:{“signal_path”:[{“type”:“output”,“quality”:“lossless”,“method”:“usb”}]},“status”:“OutputMessage”}
[0000115] 10.764 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [5] {“status”:“Success”,“audio_port”:48164,“clock_port”:48021}
[0000116] 10.795 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] GOT [6] {“request”:“stream”,“stream_id”:1592566775,“first_seq”:0,“nak_port”:65333}
[0000117] 10.796 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [6] {“status”:“Buffering”}
[0000118] 10.912 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [6] {“status”:“Ready”}
[0000119] 10.919 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] GOT [7] {“request”:“start”,“time”:400585567,“stream_sample”:0}
[0000120] 10.921 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [6] {“status”:“Playing”}
[0000121] 10.922 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [7] {“status”:“Success”}
[0000122] 10.964 TRACE waiting for start time…
[0000123] 11.014 TRACE starting playback: now (400000000ns) + ns_per_buf(50000000ns) = 450000000ns > 400585567ns streamsample=0
[0000124] 225.219 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] GOT [8] {“request”:“end_stream”}
[0000125] 225.220 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [6] {“status”:“Ended”}
[0000126] 225.222 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [8] {“status”:“Success”}
[0000127] 230.219 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] GOT [9] {“request”:“teardown”}
[0000128] 230.219 TRACE [alsa] teardown
[0000129] 230.275 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [5] {“status”:“Teardown”}
[0000130] 235.886 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] GOT [10] {“request”:“setup”,“format”:{“sample_type”:“pcm”,“sample_rate”:48000,“bits_per_sample”:24,“channels”:2}}
[0000131] 235.886 TRACE alsa output setup: format is pcm 48000/24/2
[0000132] 235.886 TRACE opening [hw:0,0] 48000/24/2
[0000133] 235.888 TRACE prefer larger samples = 0
[0000134] 235.888 TRACE [ALSA] [hw:0,0] using hw pcmformat S32_LE bitspersample 24
[0000135] 235.888 TRACE [ALSA] [hw:0,0] Requesting 2 periods
[0000136] 235.888 TRACE [ALSA] [hw:0,0] Requesting 4800 frames/buffer (2400 frames/period)
[0000137] 235.888 TRACE [ALSA] [hw:0,0] Initialized with 2 periods with 2400 frames/period and 4800 frames/buffer
[0000138] 235.891 WARNING sched_setscheduler failed: Operation not permitted
[0000139] 235.891 TRACE samples per buf 2400 ns per buf 50000000 samplerate 48000
[0000140] 235.891 TRACE 2400 samples per buf, 14400 bytes per buf, 19200 bytes per hwbuf
[0000141] 235.891 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] got output message {“signal_path”: [{“quality”: “lossless”, “type”: “output”, “method”: “usb”}]}
[0000142] 235.891 TRACE [output/alsa] [hw:0,0] waiting for device to be ready
[0000143] 235.891 TRACE [output/alsa] [hw:0,0] device is ready
[0000144] 235.894 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [10] {“message”:{“signal_path”:[{“type”:“output”,“quality”:“lossless”,“method”:“usb”}]},“status”:“OutputMessage”}
[0000145] 235.898 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [10] {“status”:“Success”,“audio_port”:48164,“clock_port”:48021}
[0000146] 235.929 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] GOT [11] {“request”:“stream”,“stream_id”:1592566776,“first_seq”:15223,“nak_port”:65333}
[0000147] 235.930 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [11] {“status”:“Buffering”}
[0000148] 236.045 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [11] {“status”:“Ready”}
[0000149] 236.055 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] GOT [12] {“request”:“start”,“time”:220051617067,“stream_sample”:0}
[0000150] 236.057 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [11] {“status”:“Playing”}
[0000151] 236.060 TRACE [lua@0xf0aac] [192.168.1.23:53010] SENT [12] {“status”:“Success”}
[0000152] 236.096 TRACE waiting for start time…
[0000153] 236.146 TRACE starting playback: now (220050000000ns) + ns_per_buf(8572217847659032704ns) = 220100000000ns > 220051617067ns streamsample=0
[0000154] 367.194 TRACE [server] [127.0.0.1:39398] accepted connection
[0000155] 367.200 TRACE [session] [127.0.0.1:39398] created
11/01/2016 11:26:00 - ------------------------------------------------------------
11/01/2016 11:26:00 - aplay -l
**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: B20 [Bryston USB Audio 2.0], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio]
Subdevices: 0/1
Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

Hi @vladimirkl ----- Thank you for the feedback and my apologies for the slow response here. I see that you are running MR 1.1.8, thank you for confirming this as well.

Moving forward, is it possible to provide an example of the quality issue you are referring to here? Perhaps a quick video, if possible of course. I would like to hear exactly what you are hearing to see if this is consistent on our end as well.

-Eric

Hi @Eric

I think this is hard to catch in video. I hear this issue as over detailed and annoying high frequencies. And I don’t have such a problem with squeezelite and mpd/dlna at all. I can also add that I use iFi power supply and going to try TeddyPardo linear power supply in nearest days. I will report if this make any improvement. Btw, did you check my settings, are they ok?

Hi @Eric,
Installing linear power supply improved overall sound but obviosly didn’t change the fact that Roon Ready endpoint sounds much worse than mpd/dlna mode - on flat and bright side. And I think I’ve found the possible cause - ALSA parameters. Roon Ready uses 100ms ALSA buffer with 2 as period count. And MPD uses 500ms buffer with 4 periods. And this makes a difference - at least for my DAC. I’ve checked this hypothesis with Squeezelite - it sounds worse than Roon with default buffer, but with 480ms buffer it sounds much more close to MPD - with fuller and softer sound. So my question is whether is it possible to set custom ALSA parameters for Roon ready endpoint? May be in some config file? If not, can you add this capability in future builds? I know that there is an opinion that ALSA parameters doesn’t affect sound quality - only dropouts, but in my case I see huge difference.

@support, can you answer my question?

Hi @vladimirkl ----- Please be advised that I have a meeting with my developers today and will be discussing this thread. Once I have some feedback, I will follow back up with you asap. I appreciate your patience. Many thanks!

-Eric

Thank you very much @Eric. And I have surprising news - just updated to RoonReady 1.1.10 and suddenly noticed audible improvements to sound - it is much less harsh and more close to mpd. Can you explain what happened?

Did the ALSA parameters change Vladimir ?

No, but sound has significanlty changed. I hope this is not accident so @Eric will find what is really changed in source code between 1.1.8 and 1.1.10 and tell us. I think this is important for all Roon community, because I’ve seen a number of complaints about sound quality from other users too.

Hi @vladimirkl ----- Thank you for your patience. As mentioned I had a chance to meet with my team and our CTO yesterday to discuss any support related questions.

Moving forward, I mentioned this post and your concern about Roon’s sound quality and our CTO had the following to offer:

“There were no SQ-related changes to RAAT from 1.1.8 -> 1.1.10. If you’re able to measure a difference, it suggests that some other variable changed around the same time.”

-Eric

@Eric, thank you very much for reply. I didn’t change anything in my system, so I think that change may be related to Sonicorbiter operation system. Could you please also update on my support case related to gapless playback?

I got the same issue. Have you solved it?

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