Roon/Synology + Focal Arche. Repeatable problem +my workaround

Synology 918+
Roon version 1.7 Build 710
Macbook pro as remote running 1.7/710 also

Naim Nova - wired Ethernet. Works fine.
Naim Muso 2 - wifi. Works fine.
Chord Mojo/Poly - wifi. Works fine

Problem comes with USB connection to Focal Arche.
3 topologies all have the same failure:

  1. USB C - Arche from Macbook pro.
  2. Stream box S2 Ultra - USB to Arche. (wired or wifi same problem)
  3. Intel Nuc PC. USB to Arche. (wired or wifi same problem)

Fail scenario:
Play Kurt Elling - Loch Tay Boat Song (from Passion World).
Queue the next track. Death of an Optimist (Intro) - Grandson (from Death of an Optimist)
Plays the Elling track fine, Roon remote app shows the Grandson track to be playing, but there is no sound. It will then stop and lose the connection.
Can only be remedied by rebooting everything and reconnecting.

The PC offers more options for how to manage the connection:
Roon shows WASAPI, ASIO and Default device as options.
WASAPI and ASIO connections both fail per my scenario above.
The Default audio device option works. Signal path shows OS mixer as the System output.

Will report this to Focal as this all suggest the problem is at their end. Suggestions of course welcome.
Stream Box S2 Ultra with USB connection to Focal Arche.

Hi @Dan_Watkins,

Thanks for reaching out!

Are these the TIDAL/Qobuz versions of the tracks or local library tracks?
What does the Signal Path show when you switch between the two tracks?
Do these tracks have different sample rates, and the issue occurs between sample rate switches?

Tidal.
Kurt Elling Path:
Tidal/Flac 48kHz, 24bit 2ch, MQA 96kHz
MQA Studio 96kHz
MQA Core Decoder to 96kHz 24bit with MQA Signalling

Grandson does have a different Sample Rate:
Tidal/Flac 44.1kHz, 24bit 2ch, MQA 44.1kHz
MQA Studio 44.1kHz
MQA Core Decoder to 88.2kHz with MQA Signalling

It never plays the second track. It also will NOT play the Grandson track if I try to start with it. So less a switch perhaps, and more playing that second track at all. Works fine on my Nova/Muso/Poly-Mojo.

Thanks for taking a look!

Hi @Dan_Watkins,

Thanks for confirming that the issue occurs when tracks had different sample rates.
Can you enable DSP upsampling and see if the issue continues to occur?

Thanks. I tried this. Setting the WASAPI connection as you suggested.

Roon plays the Elling track, but then the same problem with the Grandson track. No audio. Both the WASAPI and the PC output endpoints cease to work at that point. Note that the two Naim end points (Nova/Muso) are unaffected and remain up and working.

Getting the working PC end point to work again has been something of a challenge after that test.

After a number of reboots trying various sequences and connections, I have found: If I restart the roon server and the PC and the Arche with the cable removed, roon will start up and show both end points. However as soon as I plug in the cable between PC and Arche, those two end points fail.

It takes a 2-3 seconds after the plug in cable for the roon client on the PC to lose the end points. This provided enought of a slot to disable the WASAPI connection. The roon endpoints are still lost.

A further reboot, this time with the cables reconnected between the Arche and the PC before restarting the roon server and the PC end point comes up successfully now that the WASAPI one is disabled before it restarts. Looks like only a setting hack at the back end would get that WASAPI to work at all again. I’m curious where the setting is, presumably in some XML file somewhere.

One detail - when the Elling song did play on the WASAPI connection before the fail, the Arche shows the 96kHz sampling rate. Now playing through the PC mixer it is showing 48kHz.

@noris should have tagged you :slight_smile:

Hi @Dan_Watkins,

Does this same issue happen with a different USB cable as well?

Can you reproduce the issue and let me know the exact local time + date + track the issue occurs on so that we can take a look at logs?

@noris As soon as I enable the WASAPI connection it then loses the connections from the PC now. I am unable to remove the sample rate conversion from that endpoint to get it up. I did that just now, so 14:32 UK time, not sure if you can get in remotely to look at logs or you need me to DL/Send.

If you can point me in the direction of the config file/XML where that setting is, i can change it and get that end point up again, then recreate the music generated failure.

Left it be because I was working. The two PC connection end points were there again after a few hours. Was able to play the WASAPI tracks as before. Kurt Elling plays at 96kHz then when it cues up Grandson it doesn’t produce any sound.

I have 2 USB cables. Same behaviour with both. 17:50 UK time was the failure. Let me know where to get logs from and where to send if you want.

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Hi @Dan_Watkins,

Thanks for the timestamps here! Can I please ask that you use these instructions to send me a copy of your Roon Synology logs?

Does the same behavior occur if you try to use this Mac as the Roon Core?

  • Create a Backup of your current database
  • Open Roon on the other PC you wish to try as the Core
  • Roon Settings → General
  • Disconnect
  • On the “Choose your Core” screen, press “Use this PC”
  • If asked to Unauthorize, you can go ahead and do so. You are limited to one active Roon Core at a time but you are free to switch between them as often as you’d like.
  • Verify if the same behavior occurs on the different PC

So I just tried this but with Qobuz going from 96k to 44k 24bit (using tracks mentioned) with Stack Audio Link II , which uses commercial version of RopieeXL. It’s feeding the Focal Arche thru usb. When it got to the 2nd track it paused for a moment but then started playing just fine. Not sure if MQA tracks are the issue.

@noris I copied the logs to here: Box

Given the 1.8 upgrade drops today, I’ll process that. See what behaviour I get there. Then I’ll try running the roon core on the PC and the Mac separately connected to the Arche.

And thanks Mike for your comment too. I don’t have Qobuz, but will see if I can get a Qobuz trial and try on there too.

Upgraded to 1.8 now. Same behaviour - play the same two tracks, fails to play the second at switch over. Interestingly I watched the Arche screen and at the switchover between the two tracks, the Arche frequency switches from 96kHz to NOSIG and stays there - roon is still showing the changed sampling frequency for the grandson track. I’ll try setting up new Roon Core on both the Mac and the Windows PC a bit later on.

@noris, I setup a 1.8 core on the PC and connected the PC to the Arche. Same thing, WASAPI, plays the Elling track and chokes on the Grandson track. Logs for that here: Box

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@Dan_Watkins - Thanks for checking the other PC and for logs, let me get these over to the team for further analysis.

Hey @noris wondering if you guys have anything? I’m sure you are swamped with 1.8 etc!

Hi @Dan_Watkins ,

Thanks for your patience here while I checked with the team on this one. It appears that your Focal device refused to switch sample rates according to the logs, this suggest that the issue is occuring on the Focal side of things and not likely in Roon. Have you by any chance reached out to Focal support regarding this? They would be in the best position to help further.

Thanks @noris

I’ve forwarded this thread and the detail to Focal support, I had an open case with them, but they’ve been radio silent. I’ll get my dealer to lean on them also. I appreciate the help. Will let you and the forum know if I get a resolution from them.

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