Roon Tidal Playlist Quality Upgrades Not Saving (ref#JJT5ST) [Ticket In]

Support
1

What’s happening?

· Other

How can we help?

· None of the above

Other options

· Other

Describe the issue

Upgrading audio quality via the "Improve Playlist" feature does not save upgrades to files with Tidal playlists. When I click the "improve playlist" button, select "Upgrade quality", and then "Save [#] improvements" it looks like it's saved the changes for a few seconds, and then all the quality upgrades revert back to the original songs and the "Improve Playlist" button returns, with the exact same upgrade recommendations. No matter how many times I try to upgrade the quality, the playlist reverts back to its original form and the same quality upgrade recommendations are suggested repeatedly.

Interestingly, I seem to have found a hack to work around this bug. If I *first* edit the title of my playlist from within Roon (any change to the title seems to work), and *then* I go through the entire "Improve playlist" audio quality upgrade flow, it will usually (though not always) save the upgraded quality songs to the playlist. For some reason forcing an edit to the playlist title first unblocks the ability to upgrade songs via the Improve Playlist feature.

Here is a video I made of the entire experience and my workaround: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn0slccqqME

Describe your network setup

Roon Server is running on an M4 Mac Mini (Mac OS 15.5) that is hard wired into my network via ethernet. My router is a Unifi Dream Machine SE, a USW-48-PoE switch, and my ISP is Xfinity (Gigabit internet via coax modem). This doesn't appear to be a network issue as playlists will save with my workaround hack.

2

Here’s a video of the bug and my workaround:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn0slccqqME

3

Hi @Peter_Berg,

Thank you for reaching out to us about this issue.

I think the next step here is to enable some diagnostics on your account so our technical staff can get some more insight into what’s going on here.

However, before I enable this feature, I’d like to ask for your help ensuring we gather the right information.

First, can you please reproduce the issue once more and note the time at which the error occurs. Then respond here with that time, and I’ll make sure we review the diagnostics related to that timestamp.

4

HI Daniel, thanks for the response. Can you elaborate on what you are looking for in terms of sharing timing? Are you looking for exact timestamps or something else? I can send you Roon logs around these error events if that’s helpful.

5

Hi @Peter_Berg,

Yes exactly the timestamps will help us narrow down which parts of the logs are relevant.

You’re welcome to send them if you’d prefer, but we can also retrieve the logs ourselves if you’d rather not go through the trouble. Just let us know what’s easiest for you.

Here is the uploader link if you prefer to upload yourself.

6

I just tried editing another playlist and encountered the bug. Timestamp is 07/14 15:29:49 (Pacific Time), and again at 07/14 15:36:37

A couple of the original bugs highlighted in my YouTube video link above were at:
07/12 15:25:01
07/12 15:28:50

All times US Pacific

7

Hey @Peter_Berg,

Thanks for the additional info and timestamps! During the update process, we can see that Roon received a response from TIDAL that did not include a required uuid field, which is necessary for proper identification of the playlist.

Because of that, Roon couldn’t parse (deserialize) the playlist data, so the upgrade/refresh process failed.

Let’s see if the below steps help you:

Remove and Re-add the TIDAL Playlist in Roon (if you’re able to)

  • Go to the playlist (Bossa Chill (S to T)), remove it from your TIDAL library.
  • Log out of TIDAL in Roon (Settings > Services > TIDAL > Logout) and log back in.
  • Re-add the playlist and check whether the error persists.

    Force a TIDAL Sync in Roon

  • Go to Settings > Services > TIDAL > Sync Library Now.
  • This may re-fetch and clear stale or broken data.

If neither of the above help - let’s see if clearing your Tidal cache helps.

  • Exit out of Roon
  • Find and open your Roon database
  • Navigate to /Library/Roon/Cache
  • Move the contents of the /Cache folder elsewhere, like your desktop
  • Try restarting Roon and verify if the issue still occurs

We’ll be on standby for your reply and results! :+1:

8

I’m having this problem too. Improves won’t save with Tidal. Tried the solutions above, but no success with them :eyes:

9

Thanks for the suggestions. I did everything you asked, with the exception of removing the playlist from my Tidal library entirely, because honestly I’m not sure how to do that without also deleting the playlist (which I don’t want to do for hopefully obvious reasons).

Also, since posting this I already upgraded the Bossa Chill playlist via my workaround hack, so I can’t upgrade audio in that anymore. I tried this with several other playlists, however, and the results and the steps I followed are below:

Note: all time stamps are Pacific Time

Attempt #1

  • Tried to upgrade quality in “Piano Jazz” playlist (4 suggested improvements)
  • Failed / encountered bug again around 07/16 14:25:01
  • Logged out of Tidal
  • Logged back in and tried again to upgrade quality in “Piano Jazz” playlist
  • Failed again
  • Logged out of Tidal, then Quit Roon entirely
  • Deleted Cache per instructions above
  • Restarted Roon
  • Logged into Tidal again
  • after sync, tried Piano Jazz upgrade again and it STILL failed (I believe this is around 7/16 14:35:40)

I then tried to upgrade a few other playlists, all of which worked the first time, specifically:

  • “My Girl - Extended Soundtrack” [timestamp: 07/16 14:24:21]
  • “Melancholy” [timestamp: 07/16 14:25:29]
  • “Disco Fever (T)” [timestamp: 07/16 14:36:12]

I then tried some older playlists in Tidal that I’ve had and haven’t modified for a long time in Tidal. (e.g. “Covers, Lovers!”), and that failed.

Here’s where things get really interesting…

Due to past synchronization issues between Spotify and Tidal I have some duplicate playlists in Tidal (same names, sometimes with slightly differing track counts). I wanted to see if there was a difference in upgrading them. Sure enough, I got some strange results:

  • “HAPPY HAPPY” [206 tracks] - 42 quality improvements suggested;
    • improvement failed; [timestamps around: 07/16 15:03:53]
    • I tried again later and it still failed time: 07/16 15:04:58
  • “HAPPY HAPPY” [205 tracks] - 19 quality improvements suggested;
    • Upgrade succeeded, kind of – timestamp: 07/16 15:04:27
    • after the initial upgrade 2 more upgrade suggestions appeared (notably fewer than the original 19)
    • those 2 suggestions first failed timestamp: 07/16 15:04:38
    • I tried again later, and the upgrades then succeeded timestamp: 07/16 15:07:22

Some additional interesting results with nearly duplicate playlists (same names, almost same tracks, with just a couple differences). These two both FAILED, until one was renamed:

  • “Smoochy” [with 95 tracks] - 12 quality upgrades suggested
    • FAILED at 07/16 14:55:34
  • “Smoochy” [with 97 tracks] - 17 quality upgrades suggested
    • FAILED at 07/16 14:56:13
  • “Smoochy” [97 tracks] was then renamed to “Smoochy (97)”
  • “Smoochy (97)” then succeeded after rename 07/16 14:57:00, which is consistent with the bug as described above - editing the playlist name forces future quality upgrades to succeed

Another duplicate playlist, “Country Roads” - both SUCCEEDED first try:

  • “Country Roads” [with 27 tracks] - 3 upgrades suggested
    • SUCCESS first try (around 07/16 14:59:41)
  • “Country Roads” [29 tracks originally] - 1 upgrade suggested
    • SUCCESS first try around 07/16 15:00:28
    • Note that this playlist is now 30 tracks as I added a song after upgrade succeeded

Another duplicate: “Nighttime Piano Jazz” - both succeeded first try:

  • 27 track version - 3 upgrades; succeeded at 07/16 16:01:27
  • 30 track version - 3 upgrades; succeeded at 07/16 16:01:53

Hopefully those additional time stamps and info can be useful in debugging this further. I’m happy to try additional things if it’s helpful in diagnosing why this is happening.

10

Quick addendum since I posted the above. I loaded “Smoochy (97)” again in Roon, and there was still an improvement suggestion for 6 duplicates, which had also been there before. (still no new audio quality suggestions as it had been upgraded after renaming, per prior comment).

I figured I’d remove the dupes and the playlist was updated (6 dupes removed) at 07/16 16:17:41.

Then… after the duplicates were removed, a few seconds later 16 new AUDIO QUALITY improvement suggestions appeared!

So, I figured I’d try that as well, and the audio upgrades stuck, too (time: 07/16 16:18:49).

Not sure if this matters, but just worth mentioning that a playlist which wouldn’t save any audio upgrades previously (when named Smoochy [97 tracks] per above comment), subsequently seems to be fixed after it’s been renamed.

Also, I wish I’d paid closer attention to which songs exactly were updated the second time around, as originally 17 audio upgrades were suggested (then failed, then renamed & succeeded). And the second time after duplicate removal, 16 audio upgrades were suggested.

I’m not sure if you can see in your logs whether those audio upgrades were the same or different songs in the two audio upgrade processes, but it would be interesting to know. If they are different songs, why weren’t 33 upgrades originally suggested? And if same, well, that’d be curious for different reasons.

11

Hello @Peter_Berg,

Thank you for the update and for providing the detailed report.

Just to clarify—are the issues you’re currently experiencing specifically related to those duplicate playlists caused by the earlier synchronization between Tidal and Spotify?

Looking forward to your reply so we can assist further.

12

In my case, the first test would seem that the playlists where improve doesn’t work are copied from another streaming service to Tidal.

13

are the issues you’re currently experiencing specifically related to those duplicate playlists caused by the earlier synchronization between Tidal and Spotify?

No, there seems to be no relationship between the bug I described and the source of playlists.

As you can see from my example above, some duplicate playlists updated fine (e.g. “Country Roads”). Others failed (e.g. “Smoochy”). There is no consistent behavior.

Regardless, this bug also happens on playlists I’ve created natively in Tidal.

14

Thanks for the additional info @Peter_Berg and @optimaxi,

In case you haven’t yet, it may be good to test out using a different DNS server across your server machine and your router - if possible.

We have seen users have a better experience in the past if they change their Router’s DNS servers from the ISP provided ones to Cloudflare DNS, Quad9 or Google DNS. Can you please give this a try and let me know if it helps?

16

I tried the new DNS servers, but no change. I just encountered the bug again at:

07/21 15:50:59
07/21 15:51:20

Playlist: Groovy Loungy Goodness (T)

Failed to save 10 suggested audio quality improvements

17

I changed to Quad DNS-servers and things seem to keep working for me with improve. Thank you Benjamin for the support!

19

Thanks for giving that a try @Peter_Berg - sorry to hear it didn’t help. We have a ticket in with our development team to investigate things further.

@optimaxi Glad to hear things have improved for you! Certainly let us know if things change as we continue to investigate this issue.

We’ll be in touch as soon as there is new information or next steps to share! :folded_hands:

21

Hi there - any updates or new info on this thread by chance? For what it’s worth it seems this bug is occurring less frequently for me.

22

Hi @Peter_Berg,

Thank you for letting us know that you’re seeing the playlist upgrade issue less frequently — that’s encouraging news. I’m sorry we don’t have any updates on your ticket just yet, but we’ll be sure to follow up as soon as we hear more.

23

Thanks for the response @daniel. I was testing again tonight and came across yet another bug, perhaps related to this playlist update issue (or maybe it’s an entirely new issue…)

I first tried the audio quality improvement, and not only did the original bug appear, but a new bug appeared in which hundreds of duplicate tracks were added. The playlist was effectively doubled with duplicates of almost all tracks added. This is in addition to the original bug in this thread, i.e. audio quality reversion.

In between I tried improving a different playlist (Chillout Grooves), which had just 1 suggested quality upgrade. That worked the first time (timestamp: 08/04 23:42:17).

As you can see in the video I’ve linked below (it starts at the Chillout Grooves upgrade), a playlist “Running @ 180 - 190 bpm (90 - 95 bpm)” had 51 suggestions for quality improvements and a number of duplicates to be removed.

I went back to my “Running...” playlist and tried my only known bug workaround, i.e. editing the playlist name (changed it to “Running 180-190 bpm (90-95 bpm) test edit”) before trying again to improve audio quality. That hack failed (i.e. audio quality reverted again), and also duplicate tracks were added again, too.

Relevant Roon log time stamps for the original audio quality reversion bug, plus the new bug of adding duplicate tracks:

  • 08/04 23:39:03
  • 08/04 23:39:28
  • 08/04 23:40:28
  • 08/04 23:42:56
  • 08/04 23:43:47
  • 08/04 23:44:31
  • 08/04 23:46:04 – renamed the playlist & tried again w/ 51 improvements; FAILED
  • 08/04 23:46:46 – removing 500 duplicates that were added after audio improvements failed