Roon works slow, slow

(ALTA DEFINICION HD) #1

QNAP TS-853A, 8 Gb RAM, 64 Tb Hard Disk, 2 Tb SSD

Ethernet 1 Gb

When checking that Roon was getting slower with my QNAP TS-853A, I decided to expand the RAM from 4 Gb to 8 Gb.
At first, the access speed increased considerably, but in a few days Roon went back slowly, taking almost a minute to open a disc once selected.

So I decided to move my entire library from the NAS to a 2 TB SSD, specifically a Crucial MX500, connected to the USB 3.0 socket of the QNAP.
The same thing happened when changing RAM: faster access and speed when searching and selecting songs and albums.
After two days, the speed again became noticeably reduced, until it almost became the same as before buying the RAM and the SSD.
My question is: what is happening? Do I need a superNAS or a supercomputer to access the songs and albums?
Why with the apps of Qobuz and TIDAL the access speed is infinitely superior to the one I get with Roon, having the library in my own home and server?

Personally, I think that Roon consumes too much processor power and its speed when accessing the disc on which the music is located is very slow.

It is true that I have 36,000 imported tracks, but I think that is not a reason for what is happening to me.
Can you help me?

(Geoff Coupe) #2

Is your Roon Core running on a spinning hard disk (i.e. one of the drives making up your 64 TB of storage)? If so, that’s probably the cause of the issue. The Roon database should be running on an SSD. Moving your music files to an SSD will make no difference. Having the Roon database on an SSD certainly will.

(ALTA DEFINICION HD) #3

Both the library and the database are in the SSD.

(Scott G) #4

In the scheme of things, the CPU on the QNAP TS-853 is not very powerful. For example, the minimum Intel i3 processor for a smaller library is about 3X faster than the CN3150 in your NAS. An Intel i7 processor recommended for large libraries and heavy duty DSP is about 5-6X faster. The QNAP listed at the lower-end of performance for Roon is roughly 2X faster in the CPU, but it may have other performance advantages too. So your NAS works, but it’s performance properties are limited.

The answer here is simply that Roon is doing a lot more than Qobuz and Tidal. It is managing a large database, managing a lot of graphics, and talks to a variety of endpoints. It also streams music, like Qobuz and Tidal do. It is pretty computer intensive as a result.

I don’t know why you are seeing progressively slower performance, and I won’t speculate.

(Andrew Cox) #5

The CPU in your NAS (1.6 GHz Celeron) is underspec for the task you are asking of it. Roon recommends a QNAP TS-473 (AMD R-Series RX-421ND 2.1 GHz).

Your library size means you will always have trouble with a lower spec processor. I would suggest running ROCK on an i5 NUC.

1 Like
(ALTA DEFINICION HD) #6

Thanks for the answers.
I am aware that the QNAP 853 does not have a very fast processor, but I am very surprised that when I put the SSD last week, the speed of access to the albums, songs, tec, was very fast.

In only about three days, the speed dropped to levels of boredom due to the fact that I have to wait more than 30 seconds to find an interpreter, song, etc.
Personally, I think there is a problem because the wait is excessive.

(Andrew Cox) #7

I don’t know why you saw an initial improvement with the SSD and then a deteriorating performance over 3 days. All I can say is that people with i5 NUCs haven’t reported such a problem.

Roon’s search time has been under active development but I don’t understand that it has improved and then deteriorated.

(John Aiello) #9

So this is the problem of having an under spec Core machine. It may not be the Core machine at all however a) the machine is under spec and b) you are having issues so naturally the first thought is A = B. It’s going to be hard to get a definitive answer now because most of the time people just write the cause off as an under performing Core machine. It would be interesting if you could install the Core on an i3 or i5 machine such as a PC or laptop and see if you still have the same issue. You need to take the Core off the QNAP if you are to progress to the next step in solving your issue.

(ALTA DEFINICION HD) #10

They are right, what I do not understand is because the first day I moved the entire NAS library to the SSD the speed of access was very fast but after several days it was slow again.
If it were a NAS problem (although I know that the processor is very fair in features), it would not have gone fast for a few days.
I’m almost convinced that the problem is more in Roon than in the NAS

(John Aiello) #11

So move the Core to a PC and prove it.

(Geoff Coupe) #12

I have a similar sized library (35,000 tracks) running on an i5 NUC running ROCK, and it doesn’t break a sweat…

(ALTA DEFINICION HD) #13

I’m going to move the core to my Intel i7 7700 computer and check the operation.

One question: is it possible that the speed of the music library and the database is lower in the same SSD?
Would it be better to have the database in another SSD?

(Scott G) #14

For Roon ROCK they pretty much insist Roon is on a dedicated SSD and music is on the other storage device (internal SATA drive or USB).
But most people using a PC as a core can’t differentiate.

(Geoff Coupe) #15

Yes, but this is simply because the SSD of a ROCK system will be fully reformatted if ROCK or Roon is reinstalled.

(Scott G) #16

:wink:!
ten characters.

(Music and Shawarma Lover) #17

Sorry to interject here. I think the speed issue is very dependent on how Roon is used.

While I did perceive a speed improvement with Roon’s last release, I still notice dramatic slowdowns after repeated searches. If I search for something just to play a song and don’t search again for the duration of the song or longer, then usually it is fine. But if I hit Roon with 10 searches in 5 minutes, the processing speed goes to 1/3-1/4 its normal value and the searches slow down, the time it takes to load artist pages (album thumbnails on artist page), and the time it takes to load a page of tags becomes very slow and sometimes unusable.

I suspect there is some sort of hangover from repeated use of certain features that Roon doesn’t clean up. Maybe it is extraneous results still coming back from the web side of things that the core is processing, or maybe it’s that the thread doesn’t close when completed – it has a similar feel to a memory leak even if memory usage doesn’t look to be high.

Increasing Roon’s back end processing capacity may be a stopgap. But I think at some point they’re going to have to look at whether Roon “cleans up after itself” with certain tasks.

(ALTA DEFINICION HD) #18

I changed the core to my PC with Intel i7 and the speed of import and later access to the albums is very fast, much more than in the NAS.

Can someone explain to me how I can use my library’s database on my computer?
Before the database was in the NAS QNAP. Is it possible to use the same NAS database on the Windows computer? They are compatible?
Thank you

1 Like
(Scott G) #19

Yes they are compatible.
https://kb.roonlabs.com/Migration
Basically you back up your old database and restore it to your new install. Pretty simple.
Glad to hear you are seeing nice performance now.

(Noris) #20

Hi @Javier_Alonso,

Thanks for reaching out here and thank you to everyone who chimed in to help!

Yes, you can use Scott’s instructions to migrate the database over, if you want to make sure that all the files transfer over properly, I would create a new backup with a flash drive attached to the QNAP and then have Roon’s backup manager point to the drive directly (instead of copying and pasting a previously made backup to the drive).

The Celeron CPU on the NAS is a bit under-powered, so I suspect that it is partially related to the behavior you saw, although I can’t say for sure. If you obverse this behavior on a properly spec-d Core, such as your i7, it would be interesting to note and look into further.

It looks like you’re on your way here transferring the database over, but if you need any further help afterwards just do let us know.

1 Like
(ALTA DEFINICION HD) #21

After having tried the operation with the computer, I went back to using the QNAP as the core and to put the library in it.
Interestingly, the speed of access to returned to be very fast (almost equal to the computer with Intel i7), so I think the problem is not in the QNAP, but in Roon.

For some reason, as the days go by, the system becomes slower, either because of the integration of new albums to the library or because of continued use. I think it does not matter if the library is on an SSD or on the QNAP NAS.

I do not think it’s good that the solution you give is to increase the power of the team, etc., because that does not seem to be the solution if you take into account what I just explained.

I ask the Roon technicians to investigate this matter, as it is very strange what happens and, as James_I said, it is not something that only happens to me.

Excuse my English, I use Google Translator.