Do the other services integrate like Roon? No they don’t. Everything in your Qobuz account is linked directly to your library. So if you have dowloaded your purchases and added them to you music store. Roon sees this but has no way to know they are from Qobuz. Then in Qobuz you have your purchases and this does not link to the local file that you purchased so this causes confusion as it would stream from Qobuz and not play you local verison. The others don’t do this they have a simple solution in that Qobuz and local library are a separate entity. It’s not an easy problem to get around which ever way you look at it.
Maybe I wasn’t clear, english is not my language;)
For now I use only Qobuz Sublime+ and I use it only to stream studio Master or cd quality files.
I don’t have a nas with local files.
But, sometimes if I see in qobuz that I cannot stream an album, because of some rights issues with the label, then I buy it.
Qobuz knows that this album has been bought, so in the qobuz app they let you the possibility to stream it, which make sense if you listen it from differents devices for exemple.
Lighting ds app does the same : if you use it to navigate in your qobuz account you’ll be able to stream any purchases album, which make sense because that’s what qobuz allows you to do anyway from their app !!
But with roon this is not possible, yet.
I know but for the reasons I stated it was removd as it caused more issues with users that had downloaded the purchases and added them to their local Roon library. They would show up twice in Roons UI, one from local Library and then one from Qobuz purchases and streaming. Users where complaining about having the two entries. They wll add it back when they can work out how to deal with the file being local and being in the cloud and how its displayed and played to the customer. All other apps really do not use the API in the same way as Roon so to them its just a window to Qobuz in Roon its much more than that so is more complicated to implement well.
Ok, I understand that point
Sure, but I see no difference here between other local files that are also streamable by either Qobuz or Tidal. That’s why the version concept exists. It was clearly a bug in the implementation in Roon and should hopefully be fixed soon. To be able to stream purchases is important for many paying Qobuz subscribers. Now it feels a bit like if you own a CD you are only able to stream in MP3 quality, only one level higher. Because you own a hires album you only can stream it in CD quality when you are a sublime subscriber.
Have there been any updates - it’s 7 months or so now.
I reverted Roon to 1.6 build 390, it tells me the update available is build 416.
No, no updates they are working on the next release though.
No one wants weekly updates, but this is quite a gap with a useful feature disabled in the current version. An option to rebuild the library database without Qobuz purchases, while allowing them to be shown in the Qobuz section can’t be that difficult to implement in my view.
Maybe not but they dont just work on one thing for releases. There have been issues far more important than this in my opinion.
I can’t see the point of this. I download my Qobuz purchases and these are stored as local files (along with my other music files) and appear in Roon. If I really wanted to check whether I purchased a file from Qobuz - I can check this through the Qobuz website/app. I don’t know why we should expect Roon to also act as a de facto Qobuz app with all its functionality (for example there is the ability in the Qobuz app to check the price of an album that I am listening to - I would find this very useful to do the same while listening through Roon, but I do not expect Roon will ever implement it).
Hello Paul. I do see the point.
In my understanding, when you purchase a release from Qobuz, it essentially gives you two ‘rights’:
- the right to download this release, in a variety of formats and up to the bit depth and sample rate purchased.
- the right to stream this release at the bit depth and resolution you purchased. (perhaps also subject to licensing conditions for the release which for some releases prohibit streaming. I don’t have examples in my purchases, but I guess this is possible)
From my perspective, it is entirely rational to make a purchase mainly for the second reason. Especially when your subscription tier does not include hi-res streaming for non-purchases. (Whether you also download the purchase is a separate matter, but yes, surely most people would do that. For me it is mainly an archival thing)
For a short time Roon did show purchases under My Qobuz, but struggled with getting the implementation right. The ‘solution’ was to not import purchases at all into the library, and to not even have a purchases section shown for Qobuz in Roon. In my opinion this is not an improvement at all but a, hopefully temporary, admission of defeat.
It is especially annoying for releases that can only be streamed after you have purchased them. These streams essentially become inaccessible in Roon. There are around 10 of those in my ca. 130 purchases, so it’s not entirely negligible.
Fully appreciate that we may disagree on the relative priority of making Qobuz purchases visible and accessible for streaming in Roon, but for me it would be a valuable improvement, indeed it is fairly high on my wish list.
The issues were people expected Roon to know and identify files that had been already purchased from Qobuz, downloaded and where already in their library and link them to their purchase in the Qobuz purchased section in Roon. So if chosen to play it should play the local file. How is Roon supposed to deal with this it has no idea where files originated from if metadata to do this is not present.
I can’t quite understand your point about not being able to access purchased albums via Roon. Surely, you would download your purchased albums and incorporate them into your local digital music library, which can then be accessed by Roon. I found the duplication of the Qobuz files that I had purchased a nuisance. I was glad when they turned this feature off.
Personally, while I still purchase the occasional album, I have upgraded to the annual Sublime+ subscription and stream albums. There was some discussion about some albums only being available in hires for purchase, however, I have not yet come across a hires album that I have not been able to stream in hires.
Thanks, your post helps me understand how you interact with Qobuz. It is a little different for me.
Well yes, I used to treat things that way, but have moved on. Increasingly I download as ‘insurance’, not as my primary source for playback. As long as Qobuz stays in business and I subscribe, from the moment I have purchased a release it is supposed to be available for me to play wherever, whenever. A good thing, and very convenient. Roon can take advantage of this. The steps to download content and incorporate them in my local Roon library are just that - extra steps for no gain. That is, as long as the My Qobuz section in Roon shows my purchases and understands my streaming entitlements. The ‘premium’ integration Roon aspires to offer should IMO be able to match what e.g. an app like USB Audio Player Pro manages to do in this respect.
The duplication issues you mention, were certainly annoying and confusing, especially as it appeared inconsistent.
As I see it, this meant that Roon was not always able to ascertain equivalence between a release on Qobuz and a local album, which ‘happened to be’ a Qobuz purchase of that release.
But I see no strong reason why this has to be treated differently than for Qobuz favourites, where it is a perfectly realistic scenario that an album on local disc is also a favourite on Qobuz. Either Roon identifies these as equivalent, or it fails to do so. It is not different for purchases, is it?
(I would speculate that establishing equivalence should really be easier for purchases: if a local album is purchased and downloaded from Qobuz, some form of persistent identifier could be included in the files to facilitate identification?)
Even if identification / ascertaining equivalence remains troublesome, Roon could alternatively choose not to automatically include Qobuz purchases in the library, but still provide a purchases section under ‘My Qobuz’ - it could be left to the user to hit the ‘add to library’ option for each album, or not. I have no problem with that at all.
Wouldn’t that work for you and me?
You would (probably) not look at the ‘My Qobuz - > Purchases’ ever, and prefer to incorporate downloaded copies in your library.
I would (probably) not bother to incorporate downloads in my library, but use ‘My Qobuz - > Purchases’ and may decide to include the streaming versions in my library.
And we all enjoyed our music, in our own way, happily ever after?
Although I have some sympathy of the request to show Qobuz purchases under "My Qobuz’, I believe we underestimate the can of worms this will open. I will explain in different steps, so please fasten your seatbelt
Disclaimer : I have a Qobuz Sublime+ subscription which entitles me:
- to stream all available music at 44,1 kHz
- to buy HighRes albums at discounted pricing
- to stream my purchased albums at the corresponding resolution and bit-depth .
However, things are not so simple, as I will illustrate with a number of examples.
Before I start, please take in consideration that results can be different in differnt countries/regions!
First of all, there are albums that can be purchased at Qobuz, but not streamed at all via Roon (i.e. there is no Versions Tab visible)
Woodstock 50 - Back To The Garden : The Anniversary Experience
Bob Dylan : The Rolling Thunder Revue - The 1975 Live Recordings
Sara Bareilles: Amidst The Chaos
There are albums where the album is available for streaming but a number of songs are not
(no immediate example but there are some cases)
Qobuz is often incorrect in what is actually available. Here you see a statistical number of my purchases, and if they are correctly handled or not.
The Beatles Abbey Road anniversary 96/24 96/24 44/16 96/24 v
Hindi Zahra Homeland 96/24 96/24 44/16 96/24 v
Monkey House Friday 192/24 192/24 44/16 192/24 v
Soccer Mommy Clean 96/24 96/24 - 96/24 v
Bear’s Den So That You Might Hear Me 96/24 96/24 44/16 96/24 v
Rhiannon Gidens There Is No Other 96/24 96/24 - 96/24 v
Donald Fagen Morph The Cat 96/24 96/24 44/16 96/24 v
The Beatles Sgt. Peppers… (Super Deluxe Edition) 96/24 96/24 44/16 96/24 v
The Beatles White Album (Super Deluxe) 96/24 96/24 44/16 96/24 v
Sara Bareilles Brave Enough (Live at the Variety Playhouse) 96/24 96/24 - 96/24 v
J.S. Ondara Tales Of America 192/24 192/24 44/16 192/24 v
Alice Phoebe Low Paper Castles 48/24 48/24 - 48/24 v
Joanne Shaw Taylor Reckless Hart 88,2/24 88,2/24 - 88,2/24 v
Iggy Pop Lust For Life 96/24 192/24 44/16 96/24 v
Iggy Pop The Idiot 192/24 192/24 44/16 192/24 v
Neko Case The Worse Things Get, The Harder I Fight, … 88,2/24 88,2/24 44/16 88,2/24 v
Joe Henry Thrum 96/24 96/24 44/16 96/24 v
Expected Result NOT OK
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds Ghosteen 96/24 96/24 - 44/16
Tedeschi Trucks Band Let Me Get By (Deluxe Edition) 48/24 88/24 44/16 44/16
Shawn Colvin Steady On 96/24 - 44/16 44/16
Norah Jones Not Too Late 192/24 192/24 44/16 44/16
Various Artists “Woodstock 50 - Back To The Garden
: The Anniversary Experience” 96/24 - - -
Bob Dylan “The Rolling Thunder Revue -
The 1975 Live Recordings” 96/24 - - -
The Velvet Underground Loaded (Remastered) 96/24 44/16 44/16 44/16
I will now illustrate in detail 3 examples, all 96kHz/24bit albums:
- The Beatles - Abbey Road Anniversary - CORRECT ! streams 96kHz/24bit
- Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - Ghosteen - shows 96kHZ availbel for streaming, but streams only in 44,1 kHz
- Shawn Colvin - Steady On - which even does not show 96kHZ for streaming
The Beatles - Abbey Road Anniversary
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - Ghosteen
Shawn Colvin - Steady On
As I showed you, there are a lot of inconsistencies at Qobuz side which can (/will) create a lot of unnecessary questions/discussions with Roon/Qobuz subscribers, if and when Qobuz Purchases are shown in Roon in order to be able to stream them at highest resolution & bitrates.
It will work (very) often, but it certainly does not all the time.
Hi Dirk, I did so, expecting a hard landing into a grim reality where nothing was as I assumed it to be. But in fact, I loosened them again, as your detailed post broadly chimes with my own experience. Seriously impressed by your record keeping btw!
There were threads related to some of these anomalies, and I posted in one of these - mainly because some of my Qobuz purchases seemed not to make it through to Roon for reasons including the ones you describe.
Still, over 90 percent of my purchases did show up in Roon problem-free, and I could stream all my purchases in Qobuz’ own app, last time I checked, and in the correct resolution. So while I hope that everything I can stream in Qobuz I will eventually be able to get at using Roon, easily and without download trickery, the worms are likely real. But I don’t want to keep a lid on that can!
I was able to see 90+ % of my purchases in one convenient view… currently I am back to 0. Just don’t think it is an improvement.
(My current workaround to easily get to an overview of my purchases is manual tagging of Qobuz-purchased downloads. For a while I sought to ‘abuse’ Qobuz favourites by adding my purchases, but it is not what I would want to use favourites for, and it also typically failed - in Qobuz’ own app - for exactly the albums that were problematic for Roon)
Anyone have any idea if Roon will be adding back the Purchased list under My Qobuz in the future?
Ok, seems unlikely.
Barely used Roon since recent Audirvana updates.
Not sure the Roon subscription warrants renewal anymore.
For those who agree, you may vote for it…