Unifi U6 Enterprise WAPs and Pakedge router/switches.
Connected Audio Devices
Sonos Amps, Arcs, Beam
Description of Issue
I have lost the Sonos audio endpoints in Roon. I am fully updated to Sonos 15.3 (Build 72240060) and Roon Version 2.0 (build 1259) production, which seems to have cured the issue for most people, but I still only see my Sonos devices in Roon via Airplay. Note that my Sonos devices are connected together via SonosNet. When I reboot my Roon software, occasionally one zone will show up with the Sonos endpoint, but the others will not. On a second reboot, that endpoint will disappear. It’s very sporadic. Note I never had an issue before with these endpoints in Roon and have not changed my networking setup at all.
WM0. Though they aren’t all hardwired because of potential spanning tree issues. I prefer to use SonosNet. Everything is working perfectly via the Sonos app or Roon airplay.
Hi Eric having been through this issue for almost a year of pain got me to rebuild my Sonos and since it has been completely reliable. My problems started after a Sonos update where it started routing my traffic through Sonos devices rather than Mesh access points (almost everything was plugged in through Ethernet). I spent many hours on with Sonos and they could not help with it at all and made several suggestions around different configurations in a Mesh Network.
I went the route of plugging in a Boost to my main router that I had taken out of service a couple of years before (when I put the Mesh Network in). I then reset all my Sonos devices and added them back on the network one by one using SonosNet wireless and everything has been working even better than before and I am able to stream 24/28 to stereo paired speakers with no drop outs through Roon.
There is more than one way to do this, but this has been the only way I have found for me in my Orbi Mesh network setup to be completely reliable.
You can follow some of the threads and you will see a number of stories like this and some have different solutions.
The recommendation @Michael_Harris made is consistent with my experience.
I’ve used Sonos since 2005 and have experience with all of their connectivity options and issues. The approach @Michael_Harris recommends is, by far, the least problematic.
There is absolutely no way to get Sonos to not build its own mesh. It will always build a mesh and the consequences of that are that your non-Sonos data might be routed over that mesh and you may run into spanning tree issues.
The only way to avoid these issues is to have exactly one ingress/egress between your LAN and the inevitable Sonos mesh. That means exactly one wired Sonos device, and Sonos not knowing about your own WiFi network at all. In this topology, you won’t have any spanning tree issues and Sonos will never route any non-Sonos traffic over its own mesh.
Resetting and rebuilding, as @Michael_Harris did is a pretty reliable way to get there. You don’t need to use a Boost, though. Any Sonos device can be the thing connected to ethernet. A Boost is a fine choice but I would pick whatever has the shortest path to your primary router and makes the most sense as the anchor to Sonos’ mesh.
For what it’s worth, I got so frustrated with Sonos that I ditched just about all of it - went from many devices down to one Arc that I don’t use at all with Roon. I don’t currently think it’s a great Roon solution but that’s sort of another story.
You beat me to Sonos @gTunes I didn’t join until May 2006 when I was holidaying in Florida and had to go and test it out in a shop. What a revelation it was at that time and the WAF factor meant I was able to order it to pick up on my return to the UK.
I originally used an Sonos Amp (but sold it) and had a Boost laying around and it was the perfect device for this purpose. But I 100% agree with all your statements and can say with absolutely conviction that since making these changes (completely against everything I know about networking) that my Sonos experience has never been as good as it is now. I have gone from going to slowly get rid of it, to moving what I have replaced to other parts of the house and being completely happy with it again.
I have a few Sonos devices within my network. A stereo pair of Play 1’s in the kitchen, a single Play 1 in the bedroom + a Roam that is used in the garden during the summer months. All are connected wireless to my Linksys router - which in turn is connected to a Virgin media Hub (in modem mode). I don’t seem to have any problems, although I only use the Sonos for Roon endpoints and Ring doorbell notifications. Latest version of both Roon and Sonos are installed.
I jumped in when they released the CR100. Became a beta tester because of early SPDIF compatibility issues (initially with PeachTree gear). I was all in for a lot of years - my kids grew up with Sonos and CR100s in their rooms! Roon integration and automation issues are what pushed me out of the ecosystem and into BluOS. Everything just works better when its Roon Ready though I know many BluOS folks are having a tough time right now.
When Sonos is stable and working, it’s a great system. When it’s not, it can be very frustrating.
Thanks all. I’m pretty convinced the issue isn’t my Sonos system (except insofar as Sonos has made firmware edits that aren’t playing well with Roon). Having had to troubleshoot Sonos problems in the past at a former home, I am pretty confident in my Sonos setup now. I have 0 issues with rooms dropping from Sonos or spanning tree problems or anything like that. I don’t have grouping issues or the other kinds of problems that would pop up if SonosNet were messed up. Roon has been rock solid for me until this point and the problems started while I was on vacation/everything auto updated. Literally over a year plus I never had a Sonos endpoint drop.
To the extent my Sonos system is connected to Ethernet, it’s the same switch as my Roon, but I am concerned about connecting every Sonos product to Ethernet - I have a huge number of Sonos devices and switches in my house. I worry that trying to hard wire everything will really create a series of issues that aren’t really related to this Roon problem.
One thing I haven’t tried is rebooting all my Sonos devices post-update to 15.3. That’s a bit tricky given their placement and number, but I’m going to try that next. Will report back but otherwise I may need some assistance from Roon to put in place the FLAC coding code they were recommending on the other thread.
Good luck…totally understand your skepticism around attributing your issue to your Sonos topology. Hope you figure it out. And you are very wise to not hardwire everything - you already know the issues that’ll create.
Eric I also understand your reticence to change things, but it is highly recommended if you want reliable Roon with Sonos.
Good luck with whatever you do
Thank you! Sadly, Sonos has shut down the IP Web interface. It’s really annoying as it was a great way to access and tinker with devices. Do you know if every Sonos device has to be power cycled before Roon/Sonos will work together again? Or if I reboot some, should I start to see those ones show up?
I have about 12 Amps/Ports in a media tower with a wattbox I can remote cycle, but another few sprinkled around inside TV back boxes. I’ll have to pull the circuit breaker for most of those. Kind of annoying…
So I should not have a second wired speaker. Currently I have a play3 and a Five wired on different floors in my house. I have been experiencing Roon connection issues to my nucleus. Never had a Sonos issue prior to Roon.
Scott – If you aren’t experiencing networking issues more broadly (e.g. your network dropping very frequently) then you probably aren’t having the Sonos wiring issue we are talking about. That one wrecks havoc on your whole network. For example, I hard wired a Sonos Amp the other day and within seconds my entire network was stuttering. I couldn’t run a speed test. It was instantly messed up. I unplugged it, instantly fixed. That’s the kind of issue Sonos can cause.
There appears to be some disagreement between those of making recommendations. Nothing new there
There are three types of connectivity involved with Sonos. SonosNet, wired connections, and your home’s wireless network.
Regarding WiFi. @AMT is having success with using Sonos devices on his home WiFi network. The rest of us are not. @AMT - I’m not debating or challenging what’s working for you. You should continue to do what works. What @Michael_Harris, @Sean_O (in his excellent long post to the Sonos forum) and I have shared is that we were not successful at doing so long term. For me, there were periods over the years when it worked, but it was inherently problematic and the best approach was to stop using it.
Regarding Wired. If you take the advice of not connecting any Sonos devices to your own WiFi network, then you have to connect at least one device to wired. @Michael_Harris and I were only successful connecting exactly one device. Very specifically one device and not more than one device. Connecting more than one device creates the potential for routing problems for scenarios other than just Sonos. If you connect exactly one Sonos, you have implemented your topology in a manner that will never cause the issues that I am referring to. @Sean_O suggests at least one wired device - I take that a step further and say “exactly one”. Years of Sonos use have exposed me to generations of Sonos users running into routing and spanning tree problems as a result of the multi-path issues introduced by multiple wired connections. In my opinion, you’re better off just avoiding them.
SonosNet. This is Sonos’ built-in mesh network which causes all Sonos devices to discover one another and create an interconnected wireless network of its own. This is an inevitability. Sonos is going to do this whether you like it or not. Many, many Sonos users have found that the best approach here is to just lean into it. Stop trying to use many wired connections or put Sonos on your own WiFi network.
@AMT I truly do understand that your network is working. Your on UniFi with vlans. UniFi switches are managed and perhaps you’ve modified STP settings - even if you haven’t, UniFi switches do a better job with STP than off-the-shelf, unmanaged consumer brands. The fact that your setup is working with wireless is probably not a good reference point for the average user. That’s why the guidance here is to not do it.
@Sean_O I loved your article. The only thing I have any disagreement with is the assertion that multiple devices can be connected to wired. It’s the darn spanning tree protocol and willingness of Sonos to route non-Sonos content over their mesh issues that keep biting people year after year after year. I’m 18 years into Sonos and have seen this story play out so many times. What you wrote about how to assess connectivity strength, move devices around, integrate Boost(s) is great. The only change I would make would be to advocate for a single point of wired connectivity.
Hi all - This is all really terrific information. Having previously struggled with Sonos networking on my own, having this all in one place is really going to be helpful for tons of folks. I myself run an enterprise grade unifi system with fiber runs and Wi-Fi 6e and all the bells and whistles. It’s professionally managed by a great IT guy and I know enough to tinker but I know it’s set up well. My Sonos system really doesn’t have any issues (I’m all green and yellow on the grid) and works really well on its own.
My issue is a bit different and focused solely on the integration with my Roon Nucleus+. A lot of folks reported their Roon Sonos endpoints broke on Sonos 15.2 but were fixed with Sonos 15.3. I’m wondering if anyone, like me, is on 15.3 but still having issues. I’ve tried rebooting most of my Sonos devices and that hasn’t fixed it…note that my Roon airplay endpoints to the Sonos devices work fine. I’m using that for now, but there is obviously a 2-3 second delay before music starts, which is annoying.
There was a whole thread on the Sonos 15.2 issues but it was closed before I could comment.
I understand what you’re saying. To wit, your network is enterprise grade UniFi, Sonos is fully functional with all nodes well connected and internally visible. Your issue is specific to Sonos devices disappearing from, or not appearing in, Roon.
As counterintuitive as it may seem, there are failure modes that look exactly like yours in which the Sonos networking approach ends up being identified as the culprit. You mention that your network is professionally managed and set up well. The challenging issue with Sonos is that it introduces its own mesh network overlay that is orthogonal to whatever you already have in place - and that breaks routing because suddenly data has more paths to travel through than whoever architected your network intended (think in terms of what should be a tree suddenly being converted into a fully connected graph). Sonos knows they create these problems, so they try to use a mechanism called “Spanning Tree Protocol (STP)” to correct them. This involves Sonos trying to understand your network and then sending commands to your switches (in your case, your UniFi switches). It’s a mess. Looking at @AMT topology, he won’t run into this because he has a single switch at the top of the tree. But if your network is like mine, and you have many UniFi switches, you can end up with problems that are very hard to identify. Including the weird behavior you’re seeing where Sonos is fine in its own world, but Roon can’t see some of the devices.
I don’t know that the issue I’m referring to is actually part of your problem. It might not be. But once you’ve exhausted other avenues, it might be worth exploring.
These issues are really a pain. I hope you figure it out.
