Starting speed of a track or finding an Album. 8 minutes to get acces to ROON after rebooting and ARC Problems

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

Please see my issues I am having with ROON.

The Issues

I am using a Nucleus Plus Rev B and last year I had a lot of problems with finding or starting a track. Could be for minutes not finding or at least 2 minutes. As I thought it was the Nucleus itself and no problems with the OS of ROON or the latest updates, I replaced the standard RAM from 8 GB to 2x 16GB (Kingston FURY Impact SODMIMM DDR4 2666 CL15) and the 250 GB M.2 SSD (Samsung EVO Plus 250GB.

All went well but now the problem is more or less back, to start a track takes at least 7 - 20 seconds. When switching off the Nucleus Plus the rebooting takes about 45 seconds which is fine with me but realy able to use ROON will take in total about 8 minutes when I can see it on my laptop, iPad or iPhone (using an Asus Zenbook 2023, Ipad 12 Pro and iPhone 12).

Those issues continual to be the case.

Another issue I am having is with ARC, although I do have a 5G internet speed at my iPhone, constantly RAC is frozen and I can’t do anything with the screen, Totally blocked. Also music playing is stopped frequently. Even sitting in the garden with a very good mobile network (no WiFi) this will happen constantly.

My Setup

Core machine Nucleus Plus Rev B, OS version 2.0 (build 1277) latest build

iPhone 12 version 2.0 build 1277. iPad 12 Pro version 2.0 build 1277

Ziggo Modem, Netgear Orbi Mesh network at all 3 floors, all wired connected to the main station. From the main Orbi, a Silent Angel Bonn N8 switch. From here to the living room with 15m AQ Carbon and the HiFi set, a Melco S100 switch with Crystal Connect DaVinci ethernet to Nucleus Plus by 1 Mb port. From Melco S100 to dCS Rossini Apex by 100 Mb port and also a Crystal Connect DaVinci ethernet cable.

Using TIDAL and Qobuz, and own Music library which is stored at a 4TB SSD in the Nucleus Plus Rev B and a Synology DS1817 Plus. About 18000 Albums and 250.000 tracks in total in my both libraries together.

The internet speed wired (to the Nucleus Plus Rev B) is 410 Mbps down- and 41 upload. The wireless connection laptop, iPhone or iPad is about 90 Mbps download and 30 Mbps upload speed.

I hope the issues are clear and looking forward for your reply.

Regards, Jeff

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

Sorry, a 100 Mb port for the Melco S100 switch to the dCS Rossini and a 1000 Mb port from the Melco S100 to the Nucleus Plus Rev B of course

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

Just checked or the same issues happens when the Core is located at another device.

I closed the Core at the Nucleus Plus Rev B and opened the Core at the Synology DS1817 Plus with 16 Gb RAM and 1 TB SSD to run the Core.

Exactly the same behavior as wit the Nucleus Plus.

Could this be caused by any corrupted data and if so, how can this be located?

Thanks for any reply or input

[benjamin]

Hey @Jeff_S,

Ben with the support team here, thanks for taking the time to write in and I apologize for the delay in getting to your thread.

Following up here, can you please reproduce the issue and share the specific date, time, and name of tracking playing when the issue occurs?

Does this issue occur when trying to play audio out of the system output of one of your remotes directly?

As a good next step, I would create a fresh backup and then reinstall the Nucleus OS via the webUI. Here is how to access the webUI:

RoonOS web

I’ll be on standby for your reply.

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

Hello Ben,

Thanks for your response.

I did as you suggested and it seems to solve one of the problems. Searching for an album is almost instantly and starting a track of this album is within 1 - 3 seconds. Not bad result.

If switched off the Nucleus Plus completely or after a reboot, online by the web browser it is available within a minute but really able to use and start playing music, still takes about 8 minutes.

ARC is showing by my both iPad’s (iPad 2022 Pro) a bad connection, see below images but on my iPhone 12 it is possible to play music without showing this. Unfortunately the music stops playing after a minute or so

So, using ROON by my Nucleus Plus still has two issues

• Starting to play music after a reboot takes 8 minutes

• ARC is absolutely not stable and loose connection within 1 minute on my iPhone and showing a bad connection on both of my iPad’s 2022 Pro.

Please find attached pictures of rebooting time of 8 minutes and the bad connection to ARC by my iPad’s 2022 Pro although my wired connection to the Nucleus plus is 410 Mbps download and 45 Mbps upload
WiFi speed is also quite fast, see below.

Datum test: 22 jun. 2023 09:17
DOWNLOAD: 374 Mbps
UPLOAD: 40,9 Mbps
Ping: 14.0 ms
VERBINDINGSTYPE: Wifi
Server: Schiphol

[wizardofoz (Mr Fix It aka The Wiz)]

How many tracks in your database?

A large track count will take some time to load into memory and scan. I have 330k and it’s takes quite a few minutes.

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

@wizardofoz
Understood, the larger the library, the longer it will takes
Albums 17425
Tracks 240527

8 minutes to be fully available seems pretty long to me although this wasn’t the biggest problem.
Finding an album or starting a track was the biggest problem and took very long.
Although I did what Ben suggested already before his reply, backup and reinstall the OS, didn’t solve the issue.
Now I did it again this morning and finding an album and starting a track has been solved.

Open:

• after rebooting, ROON available to play music takes about 8 minutes
• ARC totally not working, for about 1 minute on my iPhone and iPad showing bad connection, try again

[benjamin]

Hey @Jeff_S,

Thanks for the update! Upon investigation of a fresh core diagnostic, we’re seeing a fair amount of network connectivity errors during start-up.

As a next step, it would be good to test out hardwiring your Nucleus directly to your primary router, bypassing all other network gear.

@Jeff_S

Understood, the larger the library, the longer it will takes

This is certainly true. I’ll be curious to see how things perform with a simplified network setup. Let me know how it goes.

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

@benjamin
Thanks Ben, I did as you suggested.
The Nucleus Plus is now located as close as possible at the beginning of the internet chain.
So far I don’t see any improve of the performance. After a Reboot it still takes about 8 minutes ROON is fully available and ready to play.

It also is telling me I have to wait while the is a new update (which is not the case if I am correct)?

There is also a message: Music will be added to your libary. 428 tracks are added, 41 tracks are recognized.

Can you please check or you do see any errors at the moment?

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

@benjamin
I forgot to mention, the ARC behavior is the same as well. Music by ARC plays for about 30 seconds and than the music will stop completely and won’t start again by itselves. Connection is completely lost.

Jeff

[benjamin]

Hey @Jeff_S,

We’ll need to troubleshoot one issue at a time - chances are, if we’re able to help with your Nucleus performance, it may help with Arc.

As a next step, can you please make a fresh backup of your database, and then test out disabling your local library/ watched folders, and try rebooting again? Let me know if it’s still as laggy. We’re seeing a fair amount of mounting errors in correlation to your Synology, as well as your internal storage SSD.

With that, I’m also seeing a trace: possibly corrupt file (UnsupportedFormat): /roon/sys/storage/mounts/InternalStorage/Music Storage SSD Nucleus Plus/Music/44100/Ray Charles/Genius Loves Company/Ray Charles - Sweet Potato Pie.flac

I would remove that file specifically and potentially re-transcode it to its original format to help with any potential corruption.

Thanks!

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

@benjamin

Hello Ben, again thanks for your fast reply.
I did as you suggested.
As a next step, can you please make a fresh backup of your database, and then test out disabling your local library/ watched folders, and try rebooting again? Let me know if it’s still as laggy. We’re seeing a fair amount of mounting errors in correlation to your Synology, as well as your internal storage SSD.
Done

With that, I’m also seeing a trace: possibly corrupt file (UnsupportedFormat): /roon/sys/storage/mounts/InternalStorage/Music Storage SSD Nucleus Plus/Music/44100/Ray Charles/Genius Loves Company/Ray Charles - Sweet Potato Pie.flac
OK, clear
I would remove that file specifically and potentially re-transcode it to its original format to help with any potential corruption.
Done

Now all watched folders are disconnected and only Qobus and TIDAL are available.
Indeed ROON is now extremely fast (of course).
Also ARC is now playing without any problems.

Could be next step, to bring back the Nucleus Plus to the HiFi set and integrate to the LAN network again to exclude errors in the LAN Network? After you could see all is working now as it should be?

Looking forward for your advise.
Jeff

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

@benjamin
Hello Ben, As mentioned, ROON works fine now and when rebooting now without any attached or watched file, rebooting still takes 8 - 9 minutes. Is this normal as well? I can remember it was much faster in the past, correct?

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

@benjamin
Hi Ben, I know we have to sort out step by step but just to let you know my previous information was incorrect. ARC is unfortunately not working at all, playing a track for 30 - 40 seconds and the music will stop completely.

ROON with only TIDAL and Qobuz is working fine and extremely fast.

How can I identify myself when a file is corrupted? Might be helpful for myself but also for all other users to identify and to reduce problems in general?

Thanks, Jeff

[benjamin]

Hey @Jeff_S,

To confirm, when you disabled your local library, the reboot time still felt long - around 8 minutes?

@Jeff_S

ROON with only TIDAL and Qobuz is working fine and extremely fast.

Did you re-enable your local library at this point?

@Jeff_S

How can I identify myself when a file is corrupted? Might be helpful for myself but also for all other users to identify and to reduce problems in general?

You can access your Roon Logs for such information:

Logs

If the issue is still present on a fresh database, please reproduce and share the specific date and time, and our team will scan a fresh diagnostic on your core. Thanks!

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

@benjamin
Hello Ben, unfortunately the start up time was still about 8 - 9 minutes.
From the browser it show the Core was restarted within a minute but accessible from an iPad or iPhone and playing music takes about 8 - 9 minutes.
All watched folders are still disconnected as I was waiting for a reply and didn’t want to push at all.

Thanks for the info how to locate corrupted files.

I will restart the Core at my Nucleus Plus right now. 22.30hr CET + 2

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

@benjamin

I rebooted by the browser the core exactly at 22.30hr CET+2. The Core showed at 22.31hr is was successfully rebooted.
At 22.33 I took a screenshot of ROON at my iPhone. Still looking for ROON……
At 22.39hr ROON was accessible by my iPhonr again. All together from switching off, rebooting and available took 9 minutes. With no access to any watched folder. Just Tidal and Qobuz.

See below screenshots as asked for

Add images

[wizardofoz (Mr Fix It aka The Wiz)]

I’m guessing the missing library locations are still in the database and it’s this loading time that is likely the long load wait. If you do a library maintenance and remove the now non linked tracks this would improve I think. Otherwise start with a clean database but make sure you have a full backup before hand especially if you have metadata edits done.

[Jeff_S (Jeff)]

@wizardofoz
Thanks for your suggestions, could have been correct assumptions.
Unfortunately this was not the solution.
I did as you suggested and removed the 290K tracks which were connected to my disassembled folders.
Rebooted several times but instead of 8 - 9 minutes the reboot now takes 6 minutes.
See screenshots and highlighted time at the left upper corner.

So, this wasn’t the solution but thanks for your suggestions

@benjamin
I hope this information is helpful for you as well.
Looking forward for a solution.

Jeff

[wizardofoz (Mr Fix It aka The Wiz)]

Reset the database in the web gui. It will start clean like factory new. Your database is still using 8% of the ssd