Stuttering and pausing with Tidal, tracks skip or stop (ref#I1GYLN)

Support
1

What app are you having the slowness issue with?

· Roon

What kind of performance/speed issue are you experiencing?

· Other

Please try to reboot your Roon Server

· No, the issue is still the same even immediately after a reboot

Please try to reboot your networking gear (Router/Switches/etc.)

· No, the issue is still the same even after a reboot

Is there any change in behavior if you try to navigate to Roon Settings -> Library and set both Background and On-Demand Audio Analysis to Throttled or Off?

· No, the issue is still the same

Does the issue happen on multiple Roon Remotes (controllers) or just one?

· I only have one Roon remote to test with

Please try to restart your Roon Remote (controller) app

· No, the issue is still the same even after a restart

What is the operating system of your Roon Remote (controller)?

· iOS

Reinstall Mobile Roon Remote App

· No, I am still having the issue even after reinstalling

Router Domain Name System (DNS) change

· I don't know how to do this

What is the operating system of your Roon Server host machine?

· MacOS

Timestamp of issue occurrences

· Intermittent dropouts and second long pauses

Describe the issue

I keep getting stuttering and pausing and then get a message that tidal is loading slowly and it skips tracks then stops
It makes me genuinely sad that Roon has so many issues and then I’m asked to go through endless fixes that don’t fix anything
I’m starting to regret ever bothering to use Roon because any little thing makes it not work and I now warn people to stay away from Roon
I don’t need a response
Please don’t take this personally

Describe your network setup

Xfinity internet and router
Mac mini server
All hardwired
Denafrips arcas streamer

2

Hello @Glen_Fargo

You asked for no response, and we understand why. We are writing anyway because we found the cause, and it is one setting rather than another round of troubleshooting.

Your logs are unambiguous. The problem is the rate at which Tidal audio arrives at your Mac mini, and you are sitting right on the edge of what your connection can deliver.

Roon works out how much bandwidth a track needs and reports when it falls short. Over the last six days it logged that 810 times. Here are four of them, showing what was needed and what actually arrived:

poor connection kbps:6698.0 (min:6699.0)
poor connection kbps:6775.0 (min:6777.0)
poor connection kbps:6605.0 (min:6777.0)
poor connection kbps:7002.0 (min:7327.0)

The first one is short by one kilobit per second. That is how fine the margin is, and it is why this feels random to you: some tracks make it and some do not, with nothing you did making the difference.

The format at the moment of failure settles it. Of the times your stream was cut off, 100 were on 24/192 Tidal FLAC, 23 on 24/96, and only 19 on standard 16/44. Your connection delivers a median of about 6,900 kbps to Tidal’s servers. A 24/192 track needs somewhere between 9,000 and 14,000. It cannot work at that rate, and 24/96 is borderline.

Two things worth saying plainly. This is not your network equipment. The connection between your Mac mini and the Denafrips is excellent, with round trip times under a millisecond throughout, and nothing in your logs suggests a fault there. And your Denafrips is not at fault either. It reported dropouts because the audio was not arriving in time, which is the correct thing for it to do.

So here is the one change, and please do only this:

In Roon, go to Settings, then Services, then Tidal, and set the streaming quality to HiFi rather than Max. HiFi is 16/44 FLAC, which is lossless CD quality and needs roughly a fifth of the bandwidth. Your logs show 16/44 playing at full buffer without trouble.

That should stop the stuttering, the skipping and the “Tidal is loading slowly” message outright. If you would rather keep the higher resolutions, then the bandwidth to Tidal has to improve, and that is a conversation with Xfinity rather than something Roon can work around.

One other thing we noticed, so you know we are not hiding it: on 11 August your connection to Tidal’s servers failed outright over ten thousand times in one day. That was a separate internet outage and it has not recurred. It is not part of what you are seeing now.

On being sent through endless fixes: we looked, and this is the first time you have written to us. There are no earlier topics or posts from you anywhere on the forum, and no previous support conversation at least for this account.

Please try the quality change. If it does not help, tell us and we will keep going, and we will not send you round in circles.

3

Thank you for the analysis

I have xfinity coming on wed and they detected a problem with my router dropping connection which have learned is fatal for Roon

I figured out how change my dns to cloud fare and I have an Ethernet switch on the way to centralize my server and streamer connections

I shouldn’t have said I regret having Roon

I love Roon and it ran almost flawlessly for long time and I’m sure it’ll run correctly soon. I’m going to pick xfinitys tech brain about dropouts and see if they can turn off all of things routers do that causes problems for audio

Thanks again for your reply

Glen

4

Hey @Glen_Fargo,

Sounds good! Certainly, keep us in the loop on how things go, and if you have any additional questions along the way. We’ll be here to help, I’m confident we can get you back up and running smoothly. :folded_hands:

5

Greetings

Problem solved

An Ethernet switch solved everything

My xfinity technician came today and found nothing wrong with my router and believed the router looked like it was malfunctioning because of what the router was trying to do with my server and streamer and the $40 net gear Ethernet switch solved everything, as well your analysis

Not even a hiccup

I was about to buy a Roon nucleus as I thought the Mac mini was doing something undesirable and I still might but could an Ethernet switch be built into the next gen nucleus? Could save a lot of heartache as most audiophiles aren’t networking engineers. That’s not a criticism. But when one buys into Roon one must jump off a cliff as it why I bought the Denafrips arcas streamer and won’t consider anything that can’t run Roon.
Thanks again

Glen​:folded_hands:

6

Hey @Glen_Fargo,

That’s great news, and we’re glad the Ethernet switch did the trick. It sounds like you and your Xfinity tech found the right culprit, and it’s good to hear playback is now steady again. Enjoy the music, and thanks for sharing the fix with us!