Suddenly 6497 files in clean up library ... spinning circle spins endlessly [Resolved]

Support
1

Dear @support,

Mac Mini (mid 2011, Thunderbolt edition), latest build of roon. Latest build of Mac OS X. My main library is stored on a Promise Pegasus 18TB R6 Raid 5 Thunderbolt raid drive and is backed up to an R6 15TB Raid 5 Drive. Purchased lifetime membership on July 11, 2015. Until recently no real issues.

My watch folder is my Main Library and when I add new music, I have had little or no issues. There have been times when multiple editions (incomplete) of an added album and I have had to hide the album. I don’t delete because of the files are then lost forever. I completed converting my entire library of CDs and converted DVDs, etc., after many months.

I have not had any serious issues until with the most recent build of Roon. And I am quite concerned. I also own a membership to TIDAL HiFi on a monthly basis.

Typically, when adding new albums (don’t create playlists), it may take a short time for the spinning circle to complete. Often there are multiple editions of the same album but incomplete. I hide those and do not delete the incomplete editions.

After the latest build update, I noticed that the spinning circle continued for over a day. This has never happened to me. I also backup the database regularly.

A few days ago, I went into settings/Library and saw 6 albums that required cleaning. So I did. Because the spinning circle continued on for over a day, I turned off Roon. When I resumed the spinning circle stopped. I added music since and the spinning wheel stopped after a short time.

Today, I added one album and the spinning circle spun for a considerable time for one album. I checked Settings/Library/Clean and there are 6497 files. I haven’t a clue what the reason for this number means. Never, ever had this problem.

I am presently employing the latest update. Looking at my Roon display there are very many albums that are doubles of themselves. Some doubles are legitimate, i.e., a DSD and a second edition converted to 352.8/24 ALAC converted by DSDMaster so that I can play a PCM version in iTunes. Though I rarely if ever repeat that, instead merely playing the DSD edition of that album in Roon.

I should mention that I have been a beta tester for Sonic Studio since 2011 on a voluntary basis. And continue doing so with Amarra 4 Luxe. The builds are a mess when it comes to scanning my main library and quit after about 57K tracts. I have at least 110K tracks and some 8700 albums.

Now I wonder if I have corrupted my main library in some way. Which also means my backup of the database may also be corrupted.

My main concern is my complete library, and the behavior of Roon and the spinning circle and the many, many duplicates of PCM albums in AIFF format, or ALAC.

Some DSD albums as well. I am afraid to do anything to attempt to return Roon to the dependable state it was in.

Sorry for the long rambling post.

I intend to use a third Promise Pegasus RAID 5 drive with 8TB that only has a partial number of the main library albums and which I should have used for beta testing Sonic Studio’s A4Luxe which continues to function in a troublesome manner.

So my purpose in contacting support is to inquire how to return my main library to the stable state I believe it was in given that additions only required a very reasonable time to add except for the beginning back in 2015 when I first started adding my iTunes Library which resided on one of the Promise Pegasus Raid 5 Thunderbolt harddrives

What to do, please?
Best,
Richard

2

@support,

Perhaps it would help me if I knew how to rescue the 6497 (and growing) files from being deleted by cleaning them.

How do I return these files to my main library? I don’t know what files are in the 6497.

Also, I don’t know what triggered those files to the clean up section. I didn’t delete any files.

Could someone in support please advise me as I do not want those files lost having done nothing to add those files to the cleanup section of the Library Setting.

What to do, please?
Best,
Richard

3

Dear Carl:
I have tried relaunching several times. Please understand, after rebooting roon, i.e., quitting the program and then relaunching, the circle on the right upper corner spins for a long time and my track count which is usually approx. 110,000 is at present 94,400+. But it’s very unusual for there to be any significant number in the cleaning section. And there are numerous doubles of albums one of which is incomplete. Typically, roon will boot and the spinning circle rarely lasts for more than a few minutes if I add an album. Whereas, the circle spins for lengthy periods and the tracks are many thousands less than usual. I am only referring to the roon core.
Something is wrong and unusual. I have been using roon since 2015 and this is very unusual. Started with the latest build 262. What to do? Files are being added but the clean deleted files are still at 5900 and decreasing. What could possibly be wrong?
Best,
Richard

7

Do not clean the lib … till it’s clear what is happening here. (It will not delete any audio files, but you could lose edits, import dates etc.)

Does the total number of tracks in Roon still look right?

Also try Rebooting the Roon Core.

8

Dear Carl,
Library clean is now at 3200+ and tracks are up to 104K and the circle is still spinning. So I am still about 6K files short and now the tracks have reduced from 104K to 103K which is the wrong direction. Can someone please determine what is wrong as I have been using roon for 2 years and this behavior is very unusual.
Best,
Richard

9

Dear Carl,
The track number is reduced to 99K going backwards again. And the circle is spinning. Is there a reason that a senior support person is not addressing my request for help. I am a lifetime member and my roon program is not behaving normal. the track number increases then decreases and the circle is spinning continuously. Isn’t it time for a senior support person? Please.
Best,
Richard

10

Dear @support,

My track count has diminished after increasing. I have asked for senior support but no one has responded save for Carl whose advice has not helped my situation. Not that I don’t appreciate a response from Carl. But my library is being manipulated for no reason that I can think of and the program is behaving in an aberrant way. I have yet to receive the kind of help that can analyze what the problem is and how to fix it. Is there a reason I am not being responded to?

Awaiting support to return my program to operating properly.
Best,
Richard

11

Hey @REShaman – this got escalated to me. Sorry to keep you waiting.

First off, just to be clear about the Clean Up Library numbers:

This doesn’t necessarily mean files are missing – it could also mean “Roon saw a copy of a file we no longer have access to”.

For example, imagine you are moving files from Folder A to Folder B. If Roon notices the new files in Folder B before it notices the files are suddenly missing from Folder A, we might count them twice – after all, you very well might have two copies of the same files on purpose, and Roon might not understand this is a “file move” until it catches up.

So, in this case, once Roon notices that files are being moved (as opposed to being added), it should straighten itself out, but there was still a passing moment where Roon saw two versions of these files, and for completeness sake we do track them. I don’t know the specifics of why you would be seeing these numbers here, but it’s generally not a reason for concern.

As for what’s going on with your Library counts, I’d like to get a look at your logs. Can you follow the instructions here, and get me a set of Logs from your Core? If you need a way to upload them to us, just let me know.

Also, just to confirm – were any changes made to your Storage devices, configuration, folder structure, anything like that?

Let me know the details and I’m sure we can figure out what’s going on here @REShaman. Thanks!

12

Hiding incompletely imported albums? That could be the problem right there. You could have thousands of incomplete album tracks that Roon is attempting to make sense of and clean up.

AJ

13

Dear Mike,

I am sorry but I don’t have access to a dropbox. Can you help me as I have followed the instructions you provided and if you provide me with a method for making the renamed log.zip file to you (my email address for REShaman), I will greatly appreciate it. What follows is, hopefully, useful information as I am trying to help you help me.

Thank you for your intervention and attention. Since seeking help from Support, I continued to let roon’s spinning wheel in the upper right corner of the launched core. Despite a lengthy sessions, ` the spinning stopped and the album and track count returned to what seems to be or to indicate a recovery.

I also just checked the Library Clean Files section and found only ten (10) files where there was up to 6571 files.

If you don’t mind, and I do not wish to waste your time by taking you away from other members, I am going to follow through with your admonition and send you my logs just in case there is a problem. Please use your best judgment in whether my request is worthy of your time given how busy, I imagine, Support’s time is requested.

I have no experience, fortunately, in sending logs. So I am doing my best to follow your or room’s instructions to accomplish making those logs available to you.

To be clear, my Main library and my “Watch Folder” are one and the same. The library is stored on a Promise Pegasus 18TB R6 Raid 5 Thunderbolt2 drive and packed up to a 12TB R6 Raid 5 Thunderbolt drive. My library increased to number that exceeded the capacity for storage on a third Thunderbolt drive, a Promise Pegasus 8TB R4 Raid 5 starting in 2011. And the main library has resided on the 18TB for several years without incident. I also back up the Database regularly to the third Thunderbolt drive.

Furthermore, when for some reason after adding an album, roon creates a second edition with partial tracks, I don’t delete that album fearing that I will be deleting the track files in the full album. Rather, I hide the incomplete album. Actually, I have no idea what triggers roon to create a second album with an incomplete number of files given the library I add an album to is carried out carefully yet roon may, nevertheless, sometimes add a second album with incomplete number of tracks.

Secondly, I create duplicates intentionally of DSD (DSF) albums using BitPerfect’s DSDMaster to convert the DSF album to ALAC 352.8/24 so that I can include the album in the iTunes program which doesn’t allow for the addition of DSF albums. roon allows for both editions. These two albums one a DSF and the same album in ALAC format are stored in the same folder under the same artist.

I only watch the Main Library. Earlier I had roon watch both the main library and the iTunes program. But realized that would be a redundancy that might cause problems and stopped several years ago.

In any case, the files that are duplicates are added only and not moved. Now for several years the main library is the only source other than the backup on another Thunderbolt drive using SuperDuper to create the backup of the Main Library. And the database is backed as outline in roon’s instructions.

My renamed log.zip file, my email beginning with RESpatz@…awaits a method from you to get the file to you as I do not have access to dropbox. Sorry.

Warm regards,
Richard

14

Dear Al,
Thank you for your suggestion. The unusual problem that presented itself given I have been a life member for several years was a surprise to me. As for thousands of imported albums that are incomplete, while I don’t know the exact number, I don’t think I have reached that threshold.
And as my postings indicated below, allowing roon to complete its unusually lengthy organization of my library indicated by that spinning circle in the upper right corner after adding an album or editing or whatever else is triggered that causes the spinning circle, eventually that operation completed and my album and track numbers resembled what I have been witnessing for a long time and the Clean Up files reduced to ten (10).
I should seek a clarification of what happens when an album is duplicated and the tracks displayed are only a partial count of what actually is included with an album. If I delete that duplicate, does deleting cause the tracks in the complete album to also be deleted (forever)? Hence, my decision to take the safe way in treating this circumstance.
BTW: I haven’t a clue what triggers roon to duplicate an album added to my main library properly yet roon creates an additional album with a partial compliment of tracks.
And very recently, I added new downloads of albums that were not only duplicated with an incomplete track listing, I had to combine both albums to create the complete album of tracks. Twice! And in one case after combining the two albums, roon created an album with two discs, disc0 and disc1. I then had to combine those to form one album with all the tracks. Again, what triggers roon to add an album from my main library and then create incorrect additions when the album was merely added to my main library stored on a stable Promise Pegasus 18TB R6 Raid 5 Thunderbolt drive which I have been employing since 2011 and which has never given me more than a few problems over the years, i.e., needing to replace one of the six drives.
Sorry for the long reply but given my experiences beside your assessment, my expectations have been that roon would add a newly added album to my main library correctly. But on many occasions it doesn’t.
Still roon’s UI/UX and overall operations are, in my opinion, the best program from the many available. And I own all of them.
Best,
Richard

15

Hi @REShaman ----- Thank you for your continued feedback and more importantly, thank you for your patience.

I wanted to touch base to let you know that we have received your logs and that they’ve placed them in our queue to be evaluated by a member of our tech team. Once my report has been updated and passed back, I will be sure to share the team’s thoughts/findings with you in a timely manor.

-Eric

16

Hi @REShaman ---- Touching base with you because I just saw your last PM to @mike. Just to confirm, things have stabilized and are functioning as expected? If so, can you share a little bit on what the resolve was so we can close this thread out?

Many thanks!
-Eric

17

Dear Eric,
I honestly don’t have an answer for you that would add insight into my issue.
Given I am a life member who signed up early with roon during its infancy, my overall experiences have been mostly matter of fact. I have noticed that more editing than I would expect to keep my library organized was perplexing. By that I refer to adding downloads and/or CDs converted by XLD or dBpoweramp and roon would change how I edited my additions, I gather over time because roon was using a reference that would supersede my submissions.

Most recently, after updating to 1.3 and then two(?) other updates till 262, when the warning that accompanied some updates that a longer time might be required to organize my database, the actual time was always insignificant by comparison. Until Build 262. Suddenly,

The update as evidenced by the spinning broken circle in the upper right corner spun through the day time after the upgrade into the night time and eventually I just stopped roon and quit. I resumed the next day, and by happenstance looked for an explanation, I.e. Had I selected something in settings inadvertently that caused a prolong organization of my library and also noticed multiple editions of albums with partial tracks listed when, in fact, new additions had been added in a straight forward routine. And,

By happenstance, I opened the Cleanup section in LibrRy settings and observed ( numbers changing from time to time) 6517 files. This was a first for me in my experience with roon! And, frankly, I became very concerned enough to seek roon support fearing something I would regret if not taken care of by those who could assess what was causing this unusual state of my library’s organization. So,

While commencing Support and starting off incorrectly, until Carl rescued me and corrected my post to reach Support properly, I intuitively kept roon open and let it spin/organize.

After several hours, roon stopped the spinning wheel. The library had reorganized itself having removed many duplicates. I checked Settings/ Library/Cleanup and the 6517 files now numbered ten (10). The first clue was the numbers for albums and tracks which were no longer highly reduced numbers. Now the album count resembled 8800+ and tracks 112K+.

Purchased more music downloads. Added them to my main library, and roon routinely added them correctly in quick time.

I had not changed the location of my main music library. My Promise Pegasus Raid 5 Thunerbolt drives 18TB, 12TB, and 8TB we’re operating as they should. The only change was iTunes to the latest build and Safari to the latest build which should not affect roon. I don’t use my mid 2011 Thunderbolt Mac Mini, 16TB, SDS 480, latest OSX for any other purpose other than computer audio.

I am sorry I can not be of any further help and to have taken up so much staff’s time. Except to reiterate that roon has not behave similarly since I joined in 2015.

With appreciation,
Ricgard

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