I think we can all agree that UPnP/DLNA is no match for RAAT, but why isn’t there a UPnP2? Because the main stream has moved on, and now streaming from a number of proprietary apps? A reason why slim devices was left to die. Roon picks up the small audiophile market that’s left, which actually cares about lossless gapless playback.
Slim Devices was sold to Logitech for $20m if I recall correctly. They then rapidly outdid themselves destroying what they’d bought.
Yep, Sean Adams took the money and disappeared. Probably enjoying cocktails on a beach somewhere ever since. Good for him!
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Having migrated to Roon from a UPnP/OpenHome environment, I think I have a bit of insight into that. Implementing a Roon/RAAT endpoint is way more complicated than implementing a UPnP/OpenHome receiver.
The simplicity is, I suspect, part of the reason that a number of manufacturers are turning away from UPnP/OpenHome towards proprietary solutions. It’s hard to differentiate your kilobuck product from that of your competitor, when you’re both implementing an open standard that has a fully-functional implementation on a $35 Raspberry Pi.
The upside of an open standard (multiple implementations with seamless interoperability between them) isn’t nearly as compelling in a market as small as the audiophile market.
But the withering of UPnP/OpenHome is, I think, cautionary for Roon/RAAT as well. Those same manufacturers are equally uninterested in “Roon Ready” certification (which, as I said, is harder to achieve), for exactly the same reasons.
Yep, I often wonder what happened to him. The Squeezebox was a fantastic achievement, ground breaking, integrated hardware, server software and control point, open system, cheap, way ahead of the opposition. It’s long in the tooth now, but £100 gets you a Touch which’ll work as a Roon endpoint. I wonder what Sean Adams would do now? Who else since has had the mix of hardware and software competencies that he had?
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Interesting observations.
One of Roon’s bigger problems IMO is that the big players in the audio market all try to push their own multiroom/streaming solutions like Yamaha’s Multicast and Denon’s Heos. Roon -all it’s niggles notwithstanding - is superior to these systems but the big boys have sunk so much effort in their proprietary products that they are understandably reluctant to abandon them. (I know I’m stating the obvious here).
This is why I don’t understand Roon’s choice to target the upper price range with their hardware solutions. I would consider it a wiser course to offer cheaper hardware solutions: a decent core apparatus at a NUC price point and a multi output bridge at a slightly lower price point.
The market would be opened up quite a bit this way. There are plenty of people who don’t want to tinker or DIY and who are quite content with their mid fi systems but who would happily replace the proprietary apps with something better.
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I think my definition includes all the organization, cataloging, storage, retrieval, discovery and recommendations surrounding the media. Just like a modern physical library. So for me it is much more than the basic “untouched” file management the OS is doing. This is the sense in which I had hoped roon would take a market lead and prioritize.
Maybe, there was a lot of behind the scenes groundwork in Valance and we will see the benefits in future releases. I hope so. For the moment with the genres I am interested in I just see the same unaddressed frustrations which in many cases are going back years. There are some bright spots. I find radio much improved for example. But with the best will in the world discovery and recommendations has a long way to go, search really doesn’t work with genres like Classical, Qobuz metadata integration is still flaky (but improved) and of course box sets . . .
I opted for annual.
Is it good that as the renewal date arrives i go through the mental torment of do I dont I ?
If the WOW factor was real i wouldnt even think about it
Why do i spend time keeping my legacy system up to date ?
Quite simply manually curated metadata can provide a better navigation experience , as Tony says Box Sets …
Its the inevitable love hate relationship.
RAAT vs uPNP is the other stumbler, i have a $1300 doorstop unless I use Airplay, instead i use $150 lash up and leave my hi fi component to rust in a corner
Maybe I am answering my own questions. Sexy AI etc may be the future but i want to listen my old classical collection but I cant find what i want , so I nip to legacy
Just my 2p until next renewal time?
I think Roon is a trade-off: we give up some control over how we manually curate our own music for easy retrieval and queue assembly (which is quite painful) in exchange for having “the world of music” (not in our library) presented to us in a similar fashion to our own library, and allowing easy integration of the two.
I agree it is a tradeoff, but each of us is probably trading off different bits. For me, I simply haven’t seen anything I like anywhere close to Roon. Sure, a couple of other tools out there may exceed certain aspects of Roon. There are certainly bits of Roon I don’t use and bits I don’t particularly like, but most of what I want is there and, for some strange reason, I have high confidence that Roon will continue to move more toward what I life than what I don’t like.
As much as I’d love to curate my own music given the tools to do so, it just won’t happen. Oh, I’d start and make some progress, but I’d never get it done before something far better came along… But similarly, I will never curate and manage my immense and growing picture collection as I would like nor would my book collection (now much in kindle form) ever see a card catalog Great and lofty goals but it simply isn’t going to happen. Not by me. Not this lifetime. Hey, let’s be honest, it’s hard enough matching socks.
But for now and the foreseeable future, Roon is damn slick. And once the unforeseeable becomes seeable, we can all weigh in again.
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Well put hence the Love Hate
There is nothing better but it frustrates me a times, my beef will probably never be fixed as my musical tastes are seen as marginal
I like your honesty on curating stuff. I too start with good Intensions but not long later, it’s all in a box or pile 
It’s a personality type issue… All the librarians seem to get upset over folder views and scrolling directions whilst I consider life is too short and get stuck in to some music.
If you wait around for the world to show up just as you like it, you will wait for ever and never be satisfied. Nothing is perfect… nothing, if you look close enough but so much is plenty good enough and getting better.
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“Perfection is the enemy of progress.”
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A dilemma is a choice between two or more undesirable alternatives. I don’t see that Roon has a dilemma. I think they have opportunities. How can they leverage this product to their best long term profitability and sustainability? I don’t see this question as something we, as customers, can answer. I think it is our job to make known our views as to what improvements are needed, what works and what doesn’t work, what new features we would like, how Roon compares to other applications and why, and our ideas for significant “out-of-the-box” product developments. I think the Roon team can then use our input as they see fit.
In my OP I meant the dilemma is for us. What realistic future outcome for Roon can we really hope for?
Is it cleaning up the nits, or inventing the Next Big Feature, or both? But does Roon have those resources? If they raise money, they would, but then their product would have to change.
I just wonder what the market at scale looks like. And if it includes the stuff we enthusiasts value so much.
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Roon will never be a mainstream at scale product. Generations have grown up being fed crap (music and means to listen) and today there’s a hell of a lot more competing for consumer’s attention and share of wallet than music. For the masses I’d postulate it’s for the most part like chewing gum - chew whilst you’re enjoying the flavour then discard in favour of the next packet whatever that may be.
As Roon stands today, if I were a subscriber it’d be highly unlikely I’d renew. Too many loose ends, too much unfinished, too much polish lacking.
Every moment of life is a tradeoff. We just decide what tradeoffs are in our best interests!!
IMHO, Roon is targeted towards audiophiles, which, in and of itself, is a non-mainstream group. Mainstream, again IMHO, is listening to your phone using cheap earbuds.
I think we’re in agreement.
My comment was meant as a supplement to yours!
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