The Roon Ready Promise & the Case of the Bluesound 2i

[Krutsch (Recovering Audiophile & Snake-oil Addict)]

Caveat: I almost always do have it hard-wired to an Orbi WiFi satellite, so cannot speak to issues others may be experiencing with it untethered.

Are you experiencing any truncation at the start of playback via Roon with the Node 2i?

For me, I hear this even when the Node 2i is on a wired connection. For some people, the delays have been relatively long (like 3-5 whole seconds), but for me it’s more like 250ms. For many tracks it is not noticeable, but when there is zero silence at the beginning on the recording, you really notice it on playback.

[Tom_K (Tom Keenan)]

No, I haven’t noticed such a problem with the Node 2i.

[David_Hunter]

The “Roon Ready” designation is a promise. A promise made by Roon that per Roon’s website: “…you can trust that you will receive the best experience and support from Roon Ready devices, regardless of the manufacturer.”

Adding to assertion of ‘the best experience and support,’ there are several implicit elements of this promise:

• It Works. It is implicit that the Roon Ready device will function as advertised when used with Roon.
• It Will Keep Working. It is implicit that Roon and the manufacturer are continuously testing Roon Ready devices to ensure that certification isn’t ‘broken’ by ongoing updates.
• The Roon Ready Designation is Current. Roon Ready status should be revoked for devices that cease to meet the original certification criteria or that are subsequently found to fail to meet the promise of a Roon Ready device.
• Defects in Roon Ready Devices Will Be Promptly Fixed. Bugs that, had they been known at the time of certification would have prevented the device from passing certification should be fixed post-haste and the status of these issues should be made available to the community.
• Customers Will Not Need to Arbitrate Between Roon and the Manufacturer . It is implicit that the responsibility between Roon and the manufacturer for problem resolution of Roon Ready devices has been established between the companies and the customer will work with only one of these parties.

For the better part of this year, I have been fighting with material functional defects of a Roon Ready device: the Bluesound 2i.

The Bluesound 2i variously exhibits the following symptoms:

• Random Playback Stops. Playback randomly stops mid track.
• No Audio from Bluesound. Roon shows the track is playing, no audio is produced. This can continue indefinitely with Roon progressing through a queue and indicating everything is playing normally with no audio from the Bluesound.
• Audio Delayed Start. A request to start a track results in Roon showing the track has started, running perhaps 15 seconds or more until the audio suddenly starts ~15+ seconds into the track.
• Audio Will Not Start. A request to start a track results in Roon showing the track has started and playing fine, but audio never starts from the Bluesound.
• Extremely slow to start or switch tracks (>15 seconds).
• High Speed Scrubbing Fails. Using the high speed scrubbing bar fails, causing one of more of the other symptoms listed here.
• Momentary Loss of Zone. The control unit flashes a message indicating the audio zone is gone and a minute or so later it reappears – typically requiring play to be restarted.
• Zombie State of Bluesound. The Bluesound enters a ‘zombie’ state that requires a power restart to regain control from Roon.

The above issues occur with sufficient frequency as to make the unit effectively unusable.

I purchased the Bluesound 2i based on the promises of a Roon Ready device. My journey so far this year has been orthogonal to the promise of “the best experience and support.” Some of the highlights:

• Months of continuously being bounced back and forth between Roon and Bluesound support, with each asserting that it was the other’s responsibility.
• At the request of support, repeatedly running the same basic network tests – the presumption being it was my network – even though the fact pattern did not support that notion.
• Repeated requests for the same log files from BS and Roon.
• Long write-ups and diagrams created and submitted to make my case.
• Multiple disassemble/reassembly of my network to run tests at Roon’s request, different core machine, different router, different library, etc.
• Rinse, wash and repeat all of the above… I’m exhausted!

Recently, after I provided a write up and diagrams of how-to setup and test to reproduce the issues (it was the most basic of Roon/device setups), Roon has said they can reproduce at least one of the above symptoms and will be discussing it internally and with Bluesound.

Testing all the permutations of devices/networks is hard, we all understand that, however…. This is such a basic test escape, and for their highest level of certification! It leaves one to wonder how this device could be Roon Ready and have undergone any level of conscientious testing.

There are plenty of other customers who have voiced similar symptoms with their Bluesound when used as a Roon endpoint. It is easy to envision these customers giving up in frustration with the amount of work it takes to break through the customer support wall of blaming the network, claims of many other happy customers on the platform so it must be fine, and sending the customer off to run or repeat tests. This is not just a customer satisfaction issue, it results in critical defect information failing to get escalated and resolved at Roon.

Ideally, Roon Ready would mean the device was thoroughly tested and that in fact any customer contacting support did in fact have a network problem. That is sadly not the case.

While I am in contact with support over this and hold (perhaps against the evidence) some hope these issues will eventually be resolved, there are a couple of important points here for the reader:

• Roon Ready can not be relied upon as a certification that the device will function as should be expected when used with Roon.
• The Bluesound 2i has major issues, especially when used wirelessly. In spite of its Roon Ready status, I would not purchase it for use with Roon. (It works fine using its own app – other than Roon it’s a nice little device).

John,
Thank you for taking the time to post your problems extensively. I am having the exact same issues. I have four Pulse 2i’s and I get dropped signals all of the time. To be clear the same issues were present with the Pulse 2’s I used to own. This isn’t a 2i problem but a Bluesound problem in general. It’s odd though because when I call Bluesound and they check my signal strength it’s “excellent” and I don’t get dropped signals for awhile. Then like a nightmare it happens all over again. It’s ruined many dinner parties. I wonder if it’s a Roon problem and not a Bluesound problem.

[c2c2c2 (John Calvert)]

So. Let me get this straight: if I experience zero issues with the 2i, my review will be insufficiently thorough and insufficiently objective?

What a load of self-righteous twaddle.

No @John_Darko, while your words are amusing, ‘self-righteous twaddle’ is dismissive of what we all reasonably expect from an objective reviewer.

Unfortunately, we live in a moment when many people who enjoy high end audio do not have convenient access to audition and/or more thoroughly test high end audio gear. I myself live in one of the largest U.S. cities and have had a devil of a time trying to audition a DCS unit as there is no representation in my market. In such an environment, we must rely more than is perhaps wise on the assessments of professional reviewers – in whose company you count yourself.

In my view, before proffering an opinion, a reviewer has an obligation to thoroughly investigate and review a piece of equipment. Certainly, readers of reviews presume this has been done – although from your comment perhaps this presumption needs to be reevaluated.

In the specific case of the current generation of Bluesound products, using them with WiFi and Roon is a hot mess for a large swath of customers. I wonder why this would not be something you consider worthy of mention in a review? As you are aware of this, not mentioning it in a review is clearly doing a disservice to those who trust you and make their purchase decisions in whole or in part on the basis of your opinion. A review should be both thorough in its investigation and forthcoming in its findings.

Perhaps I misunderstand the nature of your reviews and they are in fact not intended to be either thorough or forthcoming but rather are for ‘entertainment purposes only’ (including the ever-so amusing use of twaddle-ish[sic] language). In which case yes, it would be unreasonable to expect you to point out a product’s shortcomings or persistent issues in the product’s ability to perform as advertised. Caveat emptor.

[Krutsch (Recovering Audiophile & Snake-oil Addict)]

Perhaps I misunderstand the nature of your reviews and they are in fact not intended to be either thorough or forthcoming but rather are for ‘entertainment purposes only’

@John_Darko 's reviews fall into the category of “impressions”, IMO. I am borrowing that term from Head-Fi.org. As in, a new headphone hits the market, someone starts a new discussion thread called “Headphone XYZ Impressions” for people to ask questions about the sound and synergy with existing head-amps.

It is not his job to perform rich-matrix, quality assurance on products and then to provide a seal of approval that guarantees your mileage won’t vary.

Make sense?

[c2c2c2 (John Calvert)]

@Krutsch,

I take your point, and I agree with you to an extent. I would never expect any reviewer to perform a ‘rich-matrix’ QA pass on products – ridiculous for sure. However, I do expect more than an impressionist take on a product from someone that makes their living as a professional audio gear reviewer – as I think many readers of reviews do as well.

If a product doesn’t work as advertised for a large segment of its customers, that is salient information for buyers. If a reviewer puts their imprimatur of approval on a product but the product fails to work in a basic and standard configuration for a large number of customers, it calls into question the value of the review. Furthermore, it allows the reviewer to effectively say: “well, it sounded okay to me,” when the unsuspecting buyer ends up with a lemon that doesn’t work as advertised.

Whether by intent or default, a reviewer makes (or not) product recommendations that buyers use to make purchase decisions. I for one would not recommend a product that doesn’t work.

[Peter_Brownless]

I have a Bluesound node 2 which is recognised by Roon as an Roon ready and has no problems, the power node 2i that i have Roon only sees a ‘other network devices’ and will only play to it via AirPaly. That said it works ok with airplay but other Roon features do not work. Both are connected by ethenet.
Do the contributers here see any likelyhood of working Roon ready certification for the i series of bluesound devices. If not what do you suggest as roon ready devices at the same price points (£ 800 and 400 I need one with amplification and one without)?

[Robert_De_Mattei]

Here is an interesting update - I purchased a Roon Nucleus+ and I gave up on the Vault 2 since that won’t work with Roon even though it is a hardwire LAN connection. Once I replaced the Vault 2, both Node 2’s started playing Roon just fine. In my system, it must be the Vault 2 that is the problem, so it is on its way out the door. I was even able to play 24 bit, 196KHz wav files, too. Wow, I have been fighting this problem since April of 2019 and it is now the end of January.

[Cdamo]

Very happy to read all of this just in time. Fair warning not to get the Bluesound 2i.

I was planning to go purchase a 2i today but first realised that the HiFi store here in town is closed today (May 4th in The Netherlands is remembrance day for victims of WW2). I then looked for any mention of the 2i on the Dutch 2nd hand Ebay-like website and saw a couple near-brand-new on offer at 20% discount, just 33km’s away. Hesitated to visit private sellers since extra caution is required with the virus, and such a trip would in the eyes of some authorities not qualify as “essential” even though it is, in a way.

I would find it terribly frustrating if the device didn’t work as well as my MacBook does. So it is still probably safest to just get a Nucleus or buy a good enough second hand Macbook that would only be running Roon. Extra advantage: the HD’s holding the music can remain formatted for Mac, and if there is a brief power outage the little USB powered HD’s will keep running off the Macbook battery for a while.

[Cdamo]

P.S. – went out and bought a 2012 13" Macbook Pro. It looks used and battered on the outside but the screen is fine and the keyboard as well. Installed Roon, connected the two USB harddisks and the system is playing some first imported music fine while being busy importing all the rest. Very happy!

[Sander_Zwier]

Good for you Frans! Enjoy.

Seeing this thread resurfaced for a bit reminds me that the few issues I used to have with Roon and my Bluesound stuff (Node 2i in the living room, Pulse Flex in the kitchen, Pulse Mini upstairs) have disappeared over the past few months. I used to experience incidental dropouts and tracks ‘hanging’ at the last second.

There have been various Roon and BluOS updates since, and I’ve meticulously read the release notes but never seen indications of specific fixes related to this. But I used to see more Bluesound related support threads in this forum; they don’t seem to be as frequent as they used to be? All in all I get the feeling things have changed for the better.

[Krutsch (Recovering Audiophile & Snake-oil Addict)]

@Sander_Zwier

There have been various Roon and BlueOS updates since

Yes… and for what it’s worth, I would say the Node 2i is working well with both the Bluesound app and with Roon. All of my issues with both have been fixed.

[Cdamo]

@Cdamo

P.S. – went out and bought a 2012 13" Macbook Pro. It looks used and battered on the outside but the screen is fine and the keyboard as well. Installed Roon, connected the two USB harddisks and the system is playing some first imported music fine while being busy importing all the rest. Very happy!

PPS the system had some hickups at first (my guess is mainly due to a ton of music getting imported while I played tunes or the connection via Airport Express working not super) but after just connecting one HD for music and connecting the other USB into the DAC and giving it time to import and organize the catalog, all is excellent)

Good to hear that the Bluesound 2i also works well for many. If/when I feel like experimenting again I might try it.

[Michael_Schultze]

Unfortunately I make the rather bad experiences with BlueSound as well. As a customer, you are constantly confronted with having to rethink your entire network and many more. You simply don’t admit that your products are not quite as good to justify the price. Very very sad.

Now I wanted to try Roon, but I think I’ll pass. Now I’ve bought Audirvana. I know it is far away from Roon, but compared to other software it is good

Now I am still thinking about selling my Node 2i and buying something completely different… But i don’t know what kind of device?

[Chrislayeruk (Chris)]

Bluesound works grey for me, Pulse Flex, Mini, and Pulse 2. They integrate nicely

[Yiannis_Kouropalatis (Yiannis K)]

I have also had a very tricky experience with Bluesound although there are others in the forum encountering no issues at all. Check out this link https://community.audirvana.com/t/audirvana-raspberry-4-dietpi-dac-or-working/10915/2 as it may indicate audirvana can work with Rpi4. Worth investigating.
Cheers

[Michael_Schultze]

Yeah. It’s nice when it works.
Always more often speakers are not found (I have turbo WiFi here) Then I set the input for a speaker to optical in (for tv) and then switch it off. The next morning the input is still switched on and I can’t get to my library right away. Then it can’t exFAT, and for TV I always have to do a downmix on the SatReceiver. Everything is not really as smooth as one would like it to be “today”, 2020. About everything. Great hardware, but the software should be optimized a lot. It is a little bit Apple style but more Windows
Even if you have to enter the path to a network hard disk by hand, because the software doesn’t find anything. 99,999999 % of all my programs find EVERYTHING in the network. Only BlueSound does not

Enough for that please. We are here at ROON

[Chrislayeruk (Chris)]

I use mine wired, except the Flex on occasion

[Bungo]

Thanks so much for the suggestion to connect the Node 2i via ethernet cable to a Google WiFi endpoint! I’ve been having endless problems with the inbuilt Bluesound WiFi when using Roon.

The sad thing is that I already have a Google WiFi mesh set up and even had a spare endpoint lying around for the past year. But for some reason it never occurred to me to try this until reading your post.

Just tried it and so far it’s a night and day difference! Clicking “play” in Roon now works on the first try, whereas before I would have to struggle with “trouble loading this content”, skipped tracks, and the Bluesound dropping in and out of Roon’s list of audio zones.

[David_Harris1 (David Harris)]

I wired by bluesound via powerline the other day and the dropouts stopped immediately. A much better experience.