I don’t think many people use FLAC based on compression any more it’s used because it is a known factor played by everything and has a standard tag set…
Respectfully, we all know that FLAC is used to retrieve tags and not used for compression. That is a given at this time. Although it is a means to an end, it is not an eloquent software solution. The primary function of the application was not to retrieve metadata tags. Unfortunately the superfluous compression process in FLAC is still shamelessly crunching bits. Ugh. Compression in FLAC is like hubcaps on cars–unneeded, but unfortunately still there in some models.
In the software or global enterprise online services industry when an application is used for something other than the primary purpose it is classified as a workaround. Workarounds are never acceptable permanent end-to-end solutions. It is also called a kludge, i.e. roon uses a kludge for tags. And no one wants to throw good money after a kludge.
roon needs to hit reset and select or write a CLEAN application for retrieving tags, where the only purpose is retrieving metadata and nothing else. If they cannot write the code or purchase a shrink wrap, then hire vendors. The solution for tags and metadata is not FLAC. In this situation–less is more. roon needs a published roadmap for their Agile backlog. Do they use Agile methodologies, or are they still stuck on Waterfall?
Compression in FLAC is like the QWERTY keyboard layout - a historical artifact that has become entrenched and that would be more trouble than it’s worth to replace with something “better”. As it’s lossless compression, I’m certainly not losing any sleep over it, and I doubt that the Roon Labs folks are either.
Classical metadata is a mess, whether it be Roon , Tidal and whoever else. I just finished sorting the Great Pianist Set wher there no Composer even on 200 discs !!!
If we are to depend on outsourced metadata for classical we are doomed.
The only way to ensure accuracy is manually which is very time consuming and sorta defeats the object of Roons automation. I don’t blame Roon per se , there is no better source to be had or I am sure they would have it
I have ranted before, and no doubt will again, I am currently reorganizing my library which i comment on a new thread.
Until there are standards for classical music and record labels adhere to them I can’t see any improvement going forward
As to the FLAC debate at least the tag support allows for accurate meta data grooming
In some ways I wish Roon wasn’t so good in other areas …
The comparison is hardware to software and not the same. Plus decades apart.
Roon is not using industry best practices. I doubt that they lose sleep, because they are not oncall or in an online eCommerce global enterprise. Roon is in a cottage industry.
I am trying to raise expections for them to align with best practises and eliminate the kludgy methodology. It is not the best solution. Strategically it is difficult for most to understand the importance of having a roadmap and working through a standard SDLC.
Perfect and thank you Mike
And I certainly hope your considered advice is taken on board and Roon step up to the mark. I’m just annoyed at myself for putting up with all this kludgy technology for so long and never having the insight to speak out.
As in using CPU? Compressing can take some time, but it’s a one time job, and the decoding is always fast.
If you want to store your 24/192 files as uncompressed WAV, do so instead of bashing FLAC. There are still valid use cases for lossless compression.
Thanks, I was a bit down today but your post cheered me up no end. RoFL.
Sorry. You misunderstood again.
Not bashing an old technology. For roon it is a misused technology and a workaround. As stated before, in the software and global enterprise online service industries FLAC is a kluge and not best practise. It is unnecessary. I am providing a conservative professional software development perspective. Being helpful and giving roon the benefit of my past and current leading edge technology experience.
I will put my work hat on and make a professional statement again that there is a glut of unused storage in the business. I wrote earlier about our petabytes unused. Yes petabytes literally. And in the software and global enterprise online services industry we have no technical need for compression. We don’t. We conserve CPU and GPU, especially when working with data lakes and processing ETLs.
Surely Roon have to support the data formats that its users are likely to have? FLAC is very much one of them.
Global enterprise online service industries may very well have petabytes of unused storage, but I dont. My music files are compressed with FLAC as the best compromise between usage and storage. This also helpfully allows me to tag the files appropriately. Roon have to support that use case irrespective of what cloud service providers use because Roon is not (currently) a cloud service provider.
My oh my, it’s not often I encounter such a shining beacon of hope in Enterprise IT.
I don’t see how this is a workaround “for Roon.” I mean, you might encourage users to store their music in uncompressed files and eventually for Roon and other media players to step up their support of uncompressed formats. But by no means is FLAC support anything like a kluge or workaround.
It’s simply support for the most popular and functional lossless music storage format. That is like calling gas stations a workaround because electric cars will be the way of the future. Until we all have electric vehicles, gas stations are needed.
You can argue that storage is cheap - that is relative and in the eye of the beholder but most people that can afford Roon probably don’t worry about the cost of a hard drive. However, cloud storage is not cheap for consumers, and USB keys and other devices where cost is not immaterial are more efficiently used with FLAC.
You might be surprised how many of us work in enterprise IT or for FANG level infrastructure providers and are really not shocked at the concept of petabytes of storage.
However Mr Joe Public, has a WD drive stuck out the back of his PC he bought at a big box store and likes his mp3s and FLACs.
IT enterprise is a good start, but it is not the same as development, engineering, and operations in a global enterprise online service in eCommerce. There are very few of us.The online services industry at a multbillion dollar level is very small.
It is 24x7 global availability, It we are not online, we are not in business. eCom is all about velocity and the UX. We are shaving for microseconds to improve the UX.
How does all of this relate to roon? Get roon on a proper SDLC using Agile and eliminate kludgy, which will improve the UX. roon needs a proper tagging solution and not a workaround.
Nevertheless thank you very much for input from your perspective.
I think I’m right in saying that FLAC has much better support for Metadata Tags tan WAV , presuming your uncompressed files means WAV eg direct off CD
With my pet hate of Classical metadata we need all the help we can get
I agree storage is cheap but not everyone has vast servers sitting in their homes? To me FLAC is decoded to the original why store more
I still have absolutely no idea what this proper tagging solution is?
I have my library, there are meta data providers. What is it that links the two in a new way?
Agile just means always in beta IMO.
Roon has a proper tagging solution; it doesnt use the tags on your files unless you specifically ask it to.
If this said the Audio industry needs a proper tagging solution … I would agree it’s way overdue there are little to no standards esp. for classical music. However, Roon has to support what’s out there … it is essentially trying to organize and index chaos for its users.
Unfortunately Roon being in your words a “cottage industry” has little influence on what the labels and streaming services provide.
A noble goal, but being pragmatic what choice does Roon have?