Tidal and Local music keeps stopping (Sonos endpoints)

  1. The Windows 10 PC is an Asus Vivo VM42_VM62_VM62N series, Intel 13-4005U CPU @1.70Ghz, 4.00 Gb RAM. I am not very technical, so I hope that helps.
  2. The router is the one supplied by my ISP Alice (France) model L-ADSL05CF
  3. There is a switch, a Netgear Prosafe 24 port, but I don’t know enough to tell you if it is managed or unmanaged
  4. I am using some powerline networking to extend my network to a second building, but the problem I am experiencing is all within the one building, so the powerline networking is not involved. You may have seen from the log that I was playing music to the Sitting room, which is about 3 metres from the PC, with the connection running PC-Cat5-switch-router-switch-cat5-sonos-Linn.
  5. No error messages on Roon.
  6. I have rebooted my core machine but nothing else.
  7. When you say “play directly” do you mean to the internal speakers of the PC ? I haven’t tried that but will do so if it would help you.

What strikes me is that the problem has only occurred recently - i.e. since 1.4 was installed. Before that, no problem. Can I roll back to an earlier version ?

Having read the log in detail it seems that the problem might be with my Sonos zoneplayer. I therefore swapped the sitting room zoneplayer with another zoneplayer. I was playing the same album as before, and up to a minute ago there were no stoppages. However, at 14.50 the same thing happened. I attach the relevant section of the log
01/12 14:50:01 Trace: [Sitting Room] [Lossless, 16/44 TIDAL FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:30/4:18] Eternal Sunshine Creates a Desert - Daniel Herskedal
01/12 14:50:06 Trace: [Sitting Room] [Lossless, 16/44 TIDAL FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:35/4:18] Eternal Sunshine Creates a Desert - Daniel Herskedal
01/12 14:50:11 Trace: [Sitting Room] [Lossless, 16/44 TIDAL FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:40/4:18] Eternal Sunshine Creates a Desert - Daniel Herskedal
01/12 14:50:13 Info: [stats] 3801mb Virtual, 525mb Physical, 315mb Managed, 1582 Handles, 64 Threads
01/12 14:50:16 Trace: [Sitting Room] [Lossless, 16/44 TIDAL FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:46/4:18] Eternal Sunshine Creates a Desert - Daniel Herskedal
01/12 14:50:22 Trace: [Sitting Room] [Lossless, 16/44 TIDAL FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:51/4:18] Eternal Sunshine Creates a Desert - Daniel Herskedal
01/12 14:50:27 Trace: [Sitting Room] [Lossless, 16/44 TIDAL FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:56/4:18] Eternal Sunshine Creates a Desert - Daniel Herskedal
01/12 14:50:28 Info: [stats] 3801mb Virtual, 525mb Physical, 330mb Managed, 1598 Handles, 64 Threads
01/12 14:50:32 Trace: [Sitting Room] [Lossless, 16/44 TIDAL FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PLAYING @ 1:56/4:18] Eternal Sunshine Creates a Desert - Daniel Herskedal
01/12 14:50:36 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] position timer, stopping stream due to 0 positions
01/12 14:50:36 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] State transition Playing => Disconnected
01/12 14:50:36 Trace: [client/sonos] timers stopped
01/12 14:50:36 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] got http request while zoneplayer was in non-playing state, closing connnection
01/12 14:50:36 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] transaction canceled, isplaying: False, did stream end: False, path matches: True, path: /ca84700158cc4a129698a62dc76cc4d7/Roon.wav, method: Get
01/12 14:50:36 Warn: Track Stopped Due to LostEndpoint
01/12 14:50:36 Info: [zone Office] OnPlayFeedback StoppedLostEndpoint
01/12 14:50:36 Trace: [zone Office] Suspend
01/12 14:50:36 Info: [zone Office] OnPlayFeedback Stopped
01/12 14:50:36 Trace: [Sitting Room] [Lossless, 16/44 TIDAL FLAC => 16/44] [100% buf] [PAUSED @ 1:56/4:18] Eternal Sunshine Creates a Desert - Daniel Herskedal
01/12 14:50:36 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] endstream, zp state: Disconnected
01/12 14:50:36 Info: [library] recorded play for profile 47ee07fa-3470-4055-a309-838778b6299a: mediaid=50:1:40627b4b-f4e9-4b2e-94b1-7e9fbc7c87eb metadataid= contentid=168:0:67863737 libraryid=50:1:40627b4b-f4e9-4b2e-94b1-7e9fbc7c87eb
01/12 14:50:36 Trace: [library] finished with 32 dirty tracks 3 dirty albums 4 dirty performers 31 dirty works 31 dirty performances 0 clumping tracks, 0 clumping auxfiles 0 compute tracks, 0 deleted tracks, 0 tracks to (re)load, 0 tracks to retain, 0 auxfiles to (re)load, 0 auxfiles to retain, and 70 changed objects
01/12 14:50:36 Info: Alert: Transport: playback_error_endpoint_lost
01/12 14:50:36 Debug: [library/index] updating search indices: 8 ops 0 adds, 0 removes
01/12 14:50:36 Trace: [library] endmutation in 19ms
01/12 14:50:36 Info: [audio/env] [zoneplayer -> stream] All streams were disposed
01/12 14:50:36 Info: Alert: Transport: playback_error_endpoint_lost
01/12 14:50:36 Info: [audio/env] [zoneplayer] All streams were disposed
01/12 14:50:36 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] endstream, zp state: Disconnected
01/12 14:50:38 Info: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] GOT REQUEST Get /ca84700158cc4a129698a62dc76cc4d7/Roon.wav
01/12 14:50:38 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] request matches stream, current path: /ca84700158cc4a129698a62dc76cc4d7/Roon.wav, next path:
01/12 14:50:38 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] got http request while zoneplayer was in non-playing state, closing connnection
01/12 14:50:38 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] transaction canceled, isplaying: False, did stream end: False, path matches: True, path: /ca84700158cc4a129698a62dc76cc4d7/Roon.wav, method: Get
01/12 14:50:38 Info: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] GOT REQUEST Get /ca84700158cc4a129698a62dc76cc4d7/Roon.wav
01/12 14:50:38 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] request matches stream, current path: /ca84700158cc4a129698a62dc76cc4d7/Roon.wav, next path:
01/12 14:50:38 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] got http request while zoneplayer was in non-playing state, closing connnection
01/12 14:50:38 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] transaction canceled, isplaying: False, did stream end: False, path matches: True, path: /ca84700158cc4a129698a62dc76cc4d7/Roon.wav, method: Get
01/12 14:50:43 Info: [stats] 3849mb Virtual, 527mb Physical, 253mb Managed, 1593 Handles, 76 Threads
01/12 14:50:44 Trace: [client/sonos] av_status
01/12 14:50:44 Info: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] ev_av_status, val:
<r:NextTrackURI val=""/><r:NextTrackMetaData val=""/><r:EnqueuedTransportURI val=“http://192.168.0.22:9107/ca84700158cc4a129698a62dc76cc4d7/Roon.wav”/><r:EnqueuedTransportURIMetaData val=""/>
01/12 14:50:44 Info: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] avtransport event without avtransporturi node: <r:NextTrackURI val=""/><r:NextTrackMetaData val=""/><r:EnqueuedTransportURI val=“http://192.168.0.22:9107/ca84700158cc4a129698a62dc76cc4d7/Roon.wav”/><r:EnqueuedTransportURIMetaData val=""/>
01/12 14:50:44 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] state from device: STOPPED
01/12 14:50:44 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] zoneplayer state: Disconnected
01/12 14:50:44 Trace: [client/sonos] av_status
01/12 14:50:44 Info: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] ev_av_status, val:
<r:NextTrackURI val=""/><r:NextTrackMetaData val=""/><r:EnqueuedTransportURI val=“http://192.168.0.22:9107/ca84700158cc4a129698a62dc76cc4d7/Roon.wav”/><r:EnqueuedTransportURIMetaData val=""/>
01/12 14:50:44 Info: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] avtransport event without avtransporturi node: <r:NextTrackURI val=""/><r:NextTrackMetaData val=""/><r:EnqueuedTransportURI val=“http://192.168.0.22:9107/ca84700158cc4a129698a62dc76cc4d7/Roon.wav”/><r:EnqueuedTransportURIMetaData val=""/>
01/12 14:50:44 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] state from device: STOPPED
01/12 14:50:44 Trace: [Office] [zoneplayer/sonos] zoneplayer state: Disconnected
01/12 14:50:58 Info: [stats] 3773mb Virtual, 527mb Physical, 254mb Managed, 1575 Handles, 57 Threads

Eric: I have played the same album, from Tidal, through what Roon calls “System Output” and there was no problem, it played straight through. Anything else I can try to help you ? What do you think of rolling back to 1.3 ? Is it technically possible ?

In case it makes a difference, I get exactly the same problem when playing music from my NAS.

I don’t feel I am getting answers here. It is a shame, because I have been praising Roon to my friends and family, and had intended to take out life membership. However, as things stand, I am going back to using Sonos and will forget about Roon.

Thank you for the continued feedback @Dick_Cooper and more importantly, thank you for your patience here. My apologies for the slow response.

Based on the observation you have made when playing via the “system output”, this indicates to me that the problem is occurring somewhere further “down stream” and our goal now should be to identify the variable(s) that could be having influence on these stops in playback you are experiencing. I know you have inquired about rolling back to a previous version of the application but I must point out that this is not something we recommend or support as this action can cause further troubles and will make trying to diagnose this issue even harder, because the system will no longer be up to date.

Moving forward, in my previous message I had asked if you have tried rebooting the other elements of your setup (i.e endpoints and any relevant networking hardware - router, switches, etc). I see you mentioned that the core had been rebooted, but nothing else. Can you verify if you have tried this suggestion yet? The reason for my asking is because I would like to know how the system holds up with everything in a “fresh state”. Please let me know. Furthermore, based on your recent posts it sounds like the content from your NAS is also now struggling during playback where as before this had not been an issue. Please verify.

Post #1

“Since it is Tidal that is giving me grief, not the music on the NAS, I thought it might be an Internet problem.”

Post #7

“In case it makes a difference, I get exactly the same problem when playing music from my NAS.”

Troubleshooting exercises:

  1. As mentioned above, please reboot all the elements of your Roon setup.

  2. If you are indeed experiencing the same issue with the content stored on your NAS, that you are experiencing with TIDAL, please verify how locally stored media on the Win10 core (Asus Vivo VM42_VM62_VM62N series) responds when played via Roon.

    • Additionally can you please verify the make/model of the NAS and the size of the library being hosted on the unit based on number of tracks.
  3. When a user has a fair amount of complexity in their setup (i.e numerous audio zones, various networking devices, etc) eliminating potential causes one-by-one is the only way to truly determine where the issue is occurring. With this in mind, I would like to focus on the performance of a single audio zone so we can determine how the system responds in a “stripped down” state. From your latest feedback it sounds like the “sitting room” is closest to where your core resides and has easy access to your router. Please due correct me if I am wrong and the router is in a different location :innocent:

Currently, in the “sitting room” the chain of communication is as follows (from your pos):

“ …I was playing music to the Sitting room, which is about 3 meters from the PC, with the connection running PC-Cat5-switch-router-switch-cat5-sonos-Linn.”

  • Close all instances of the Roon application.

  • Make sure that the only active zone in place is the Sonos + Linn “sitting room” audio zone. All other zones should be inactive during this test run.

  • In the “sitting room” zone I would like you to temporarily bypass the mentioned switches and mount the following items directly to your router as I believe the Alice “L-ADSL05CF router” has 4 ethernet ports on the back of the unit:

    • Core machine.

    • NAS storage device.

    • Sonos + Linn endpoint.

  • With the above configuration in place how does content played back via the NAS and TIDAL respond?

NOTE: when performing the any of the above exercises the Sonos application should remain inactive.

-Eric

  1. I have rebooted the Sonos zoneplayers and the router, without any improvement. Does the log give you any clues?

I am in London until Friday, so cannot do any further work until then. Sorry.

  1. The NAS is a Buffalo Linkstation with about 23,000 tracks at FLAC. I have no music on the core.

  2. I will do as you suggest with rewiring the system to bypass the switch, but since music plays absolutely fine using the Sonos desktop controller I find it hard to think I will learn anything.

Thank you for touching base with me, @Dick_Cooper. I appreciate the follow up.

What the provided logs indicate to me is that the endpoints are losing connection to your Roon core, which is why my suggestions thus far have been to investigate “further down stream” as there were no issues when playing directly out of the core machine.

The proposed test should provide us with a good data point and I look forward to hearing your observations.

-Eric

I am trying your suggestion of bypassing the Netgear switch. I have the following plugged into the router:
1.Core PC
2.Connection to sitting room system, which goes to a Sonos Zoneplayer then a DAC then the Linn
3.NAS
4.Connection to my home security monitoring system (unwise to disconnect it - they get stressed)

I have just played the album that gave the problems before (Herskedal The Roc) without any problems. It would therefore point to the switch as the guilty party. I think it is a smart switch, so could it be downgrading the Roon data stream in a way that it does not downgrade the Sonos data ?

I am reluctant to replace the switch: it works just fine with Sonos, so it seems to me that it is a Roon problem. If there is no solution available I will just stop using Roon. Shame, but it is a lot of money for something that used to work but doesn’t now.

I hesitate to say this, but Tidal/Roon seems to be working perfectly again. I re-plugged everything back to how it used to be and have been playing music ever since. I really have no idea how this has happened. The system is the same as it used to be except that Windows 10 has had a lengthy upgrade on the core machine.

Eric: I will regard this as a dead issue, but of course I will raise a new issue if it breaks again !

Glad to hear things have stabilized here Dick.

My guess is that something in your environment isn’t consistently working like we would expect, and that this issue may come up after extended up time. If you’ve been unplugging and restarting network gear, that may be what is modulating the symptoms right now.

In any event, Eric and our team can work with you to figure out what’s going on here, if the issue recurs. It’s possible Roon is more sensitive to something unexpected happening in your environment, but whatever’s been going on, we’ll definitely be able to investigate this and get things stable.

Let us know how it’s going and thanks for your patience!

1 Like

I spoke too soon. The problem is back again! I now have my main system (sitting room) connected direct to the router, not via the switch. The music stops unpredictably via Roon, although it can be restarted where it left off. It plays without stopping via Sonos.

I know that I am not the only Roon user with this problem, so I hope you think of something soon. I am now on 1.4, build 298, 64 bit

Thanks for touching base with us @Dick_Cooper, sorry to hear that the behavior has reoccurred on your setup.

In light of your most recent report I am going to be enabling diagnostics on your account to help aide in our evaluation of this behavior you are experiencing. What this action will do is the next time Roon is active on your core machine a diagnostics report containing a set of your Roon logs will be automatically/generated uploaded directly to our servers. Once the report comes in I will confirm that it has been received and then swiftly pass it over to our tech team for analysis.

Additionally, since noting that this behavior has reoccurred have you by chance tried testing with the mentioned switch bypassed again to confirm if things stabilize? The reason I ask is because if the switch happens to be “managed” we have seen a few issues crop up with these devices in the past ( Example: #1, #2, #3) and recommending that flow control should be enabled on the device has helped others.

-Eric

Thanks again Eric. I will start Roon shortly. The switch may well be “the problem” ( see post up the page) but it is not, as I understand it, a “managed” switch". I have read that, as a smart switch, it is halfway to being managed. The only improvement I could make is that the core PC could be connected to bypass the switch. This still does not answer the basic problem which is that I can play an album perfectly through Sonos but not through Roon. As I have said before I like Roon features but if Roon doesn’t work properly I am not going to pay for it. I know that I am not the only person experiencing this problem, and given the strong position Sonos has in the market (shortly to announce an IKEA linkup, I hear) you really need to knock this on the head

Hi @Dick_Cooper ----- I just checked our servers and confirm that the latest diagnostics report has been received.

I will be updating your ticket with all of your latest feedback and then passing over to our techs for further investigation. Your patience is appreciated.

-Eric

Hi Eric. You will not get any reports for a week or so, because I am going on holiday. You will find reports for the last few days, showing that the service it still up to its old tricks: stopping mid track for no apparent reason. Let’s hope that the techs think of something.

Hi @Dick_Cooper —— Hope holiday has been enjoyable!

Moving forward, I touched base with our tech team yesterday in regard to the diagnostics report we received from your system. We are seeing traces in the logs that are showing general performance issues with the mentioned endpoints, similar to the traces you shared in your previous posts (i.e “disconnects” and “stoppages in playback”), but unfortunately nothing indicating the cause of these issues with the Sonos based endpoints.

In light of the above we have enabled extra debugging on your account which is geared specifically to Sonos devices. When you are home from your travels would you kindly please restart your core machine and reproduce the behavior once more. This action will trigger this feature we have enabled on your account. Our hope is that this action will provide more detailed insight into what is occurring with the endpoints in your setup.

Furthermore, being as you have experienced this behavior with both local content on the NAS and TIDAL content, my sense is that you are experiencing audio dropouts. I had a case some time ago where one of our users was experiencing numerous dropouts with their very high end audio setup and after much troubleshooting it was determined that their NAS had a failing drive in it which was causing the issue. The point being is that we must look into multiple variables to try and understand what could be having influence on the behavior being experienced. I mentioned earlier that testing with come local content on the core machine would be a good data point just to confirm how things respond with the NAS out of the way (temporarily). At your earliest convenience would you please perform the following test:

  • Move some content to the local storage of the core machine.
  • Launch the application and disable any watch folders being accessed via the NAS.
  • Setup a “test watch” folder in the application focusing on the content you moved to the internal storage of the core machine.
  • Confirm what playback is like with the NAS temporarily removed.

-Eric

Sorry for the delay Eric. I have copied some music to the local machine and will play it this afternoon. I have set up a watch folder without, to be honest, having any idea what it is ! I will be gardening this afternoon and will leave about 2 hours worth of music playing.

1 Like

As you will see Roon stopped halfway through the first album. I had even turned the NAS off to make sure it wasn’t interfering in any way !

1 Like

Thanks for reaching out to me @Dick_Cooper and sharing the observations you made during the proposed test. The insight is very appreciated!

As mentioned in my previous, the extra debugging was active on your account and based on the diagnostics report that we have received I can see from the log traces that the adjustment took, so I am going to be updating your ticket and passing back over to our techs for review.

Additionally, I wanted to see if you could recall the name of the album that stopped halfway through playback so I can add that to your ticket as well. Having that information will help expedite the log analysis.

-Eric