TIDAL tracks not playing [resolved: 790 improved]

No. Absolutely not.

You must use the TIDAL app on your Mac Mini and not use TIDAL Connect.

In your example, the Roon Core is subject to all the stuff installed on your Mac, but the TIDAL Connect gets to skip anything you’ve got on the Mac.

My suspicion is that your Mac is the one with the problem. One half of your test skips the Mac!

you don’t need to do it at the same time. that will never work because of how tidal sets it’s rules on the server side.

Hi @danny ,

So it’s one of those 3 things. And in my case I don’t use VPN and I used 2 different routers in the past with same issues in Roon. Which leaves me with the misconfigured DNS. I use 8.8.8.8 for DNS. What is the Roon recommendation for DNS server ? How can I check if my DNS is misconfigured?

Thanks
E

routers are just a small part of the network.

are you able to play in the TIDAL app on the same machine to the same outputs?

8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1 are both good dns servers, assuming your ISP is not doing evil.

Also, I’d like to point out that while your symptoms are similar (as is the error in the log) to @Francois_De_Heel 's case, it may or may not be the same issue. I’d like to focus on individuals as unique cases, and stop tying them together. It’s confusing for us. Please try to resist the urge to do this.

In your log, it shows that the TIDAL stream is failing to load… doing TIDAL app test is a good start, especially since you already playing to the output on your Mac. You already have success using Audirvana on that Mac, it’s a good test.

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@danny

Test: Roon versus Tidal app: playing the exact same Tidal tracks on the exact same devices & network

  • Modem/router > ethernet > Macmini Roon core > system output
  • Modem/router > ethernet > Tidal app on Macmini > system output

Both in Roon & Tidal streaming quality is set to Master.

Summary of the results:
(1) Playing through Roon: 79 tracks, 8 skips
(2) Playing from Tidal: the same 79 tracks: 0 skips

Details:

I launched a Tidal playlist in Roon. From the 22 tracks that were played on May 6 from ca. 7:00 am until 8:33 am local time, there were 4 tracks that skipped midway to the next.

The first track played of the 22: “A Beautiful Woman” by Angel Deradoorian

1st skip: next song: “Soothing” by Laura Marling (played 55%)
2nd skip: two songs further: “Bedtime” by Annie Eve (played 60%)
3rd skip: five songs further: “Blue Song” by Mint Royale (played 55%)
4th skip: thirteen songs further: “Dreary Town” by Nadine Shaw (played 75%)

The last track played of the 22: “Slow Decline” by Elsiane

On May 6 at 9:44 am local time, I launched the same playlist beginning with the same “A Beautiful Woman” in the Tidal app on the same Macmini. I diligently listened for skips. There were none.

After “Slow Decline” I continued listening through Tidal for another 25 tracks. The next track after “Slow Decline” was “Friend Crush” by Friends. I diligently listened for skips. There were none.

On May 6 at 13:17 I stopped Tidal playback after “Mosquito” by Yeah Yeah Yeah and immediately returned to Roon. I played the same 25 Tidal tracks, beginning with “Friend Crush”. This time, in Roon, of the 25 tracks played, 0 skipped midway.

I let Roon continue playing. At 15:35 I started a new playlist in Roon (first track: “Anemone” by The Brian Jonestown Massacre). 3 tracks later:

5th skip: “Are You Ready” by Pacific Gas & Electric (played 20%) (around 15:42)
6th skip: eleven songs further: “Time is Tight” by Booker T. & the MG’s (played 75%)
7th skip: two songs later: “For Your Love” by The Yardbirds (played 45%)
8th skip: five songs later: “Somebody Stole My Thunder” by Georgie Fame (played 70%)

I stopped Roon playback at 17:23 (last track played: “Melting Pot” by Booker T. & the MG’s)

I restarted the Tidal app and played the same 32 tracks starting from “Anemone” by Brian Jonestown Massacre and ending with “Melting Pot” by Booker T. & the MG’s. I diligently listened for skips. There were none.

I made a zip file of the Tidal logs. If you want them, let me know.

Some screenshots

Screenshot of Tidal playing (made with my phone, I have no apps installed on my Macmini, except Roon and – temporarily - Tidal).



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I have an idea… it may be easy to test. This is just an idea, and I’m just guessing here. Remember, 99+% of the TIDAL streams in Roon do not have issues with the connection. I’m guessing as to what impacts a handful of users.

Here is my idea:

Roon downloads the TIDAL track into memory for playback when you start playing the track. TIDAL on the other hand will stream with just a tiny buffer because it makes sense to minimize their outbound bandwidth costs for people who hit next or stop in the middle of a track. No point in paying for bandwidth to stream a song you don’t play. This is a side effect of outbound traffic having a cost to them.

Early on, we found that downloading the track in its entirety helps those who have poor or intermittent internet connectivity. The results of doing this were clear, as we saw reliability go up and many users reported the opposite of what you are experiencing: they had unreliable TIDAL app streaming but solid TIDAL streaming in Roon. We all rejoiced!

I’m wondering if this download of the track is causing your ISP or router to behave badly. The test would be to see if you can reliability download large files from TIDAL. It’s hard to do this from TIDAL without writing a custom program, but we can try downloading large files from elsewhere on the internet, and if that fails, we will know that this could be the issue. The answer would be to provide a way for you to turn off this behavior.

When you are having these issues in Roon, using the same machine, using the stock OS web browser (Safari or Edge), can you attempt to download this 2.8gb file:

https://ftp.halifax.rwth-aachen.de/ubuntu-releases/21.04/ubuntu-21.04-desktop-amd64.iso

It’s an Ubuntu operating system image, and you can delete it after the fact, but I’m curious if you manage to download a full 2,818,738,176 bytes without issues.

I know it’s a bit annoying of a test, but it’ll help give us data.

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A post was merged into an existing topic: Trouble with TIDAL playback [resolved - VPN was interfering]

I just downloaded the file on the Macmini using Safari. It worked. In fact, I downloaded it, deleted it, then downloaded it again to time it. The second time it took 2 minutes and 9 seconds. I think the first time was faster.
Does this help? Does it learn us anything that is actionable?

This can’t be our downloading… look at this:

That’s a 2.8gb in 2:09! more than fast enough for audio.

Your “Dreary Town” track is 4:32, and 75% in you had been playing for 3:24. In that 3:24, you should have been able to download over 3gb, and I don’t care what format that track is in, it’s not over 3gb.

This means your system shouldn’t have been anywhere near downloading anything when this skip happened.

Weird.

I did notice something else in your logs:

05/06 07:02:42 Trace: [System Output] [zoneplayer/raat] sync System Output: realtime=27966106510758 rtt=0us offset=-5024298489us delta=-23053us drift=-3634153us in 339.7385s (-10696.915ppm, -38508.895ms/hr)

38.5 seconds over an hour of clock drift! That’s a really bad clock.

We are digging deeper… there is something going on here.

I could use some help with another test.

  1. Play in Roon and wait until you get a skip.
  2. When you skip, shut down your Roon Core. Like, kill the app/server completely.
  3. Restart the Roon Core.
  4. Play the exact same track that just skipped.

Does it work? If it doesn’t, does it skip at the same point in the track?

Haha. I’ll kill my Macmini as soon as I notice a skip. I’ll keep you posted.

You don’t need to reboot the system, just restart the Roon Core. There is a cache that will be lost in the restart, and that’s the effect I’m trying to get.

Okay, will do. Have a nice weekend!

This evening, May 7, at 23:34 (or 23:33) local time, “Destiny” by Zero 7 skipped after 55%. I shut down Roon on my Macmini, logged out and logged back in. I restarted the same track. It played without interruption or skipping. I think it would have also played without skipping without restarting my Roon core (by adding as next to the queue), but I did not test that. Should I, the next time?

Extra test. “Regular Pleasures” by Patricia Barber skipped (completely - or almost) on May 8 at approximately 00:27(this was actually a Qobuz track, I think). I put it next in the queue. I skipped the track that was playing in the mean time (Melanie di Biassio). “Regular Pleasures” played perfectly without any interruption or skipping.

Thanks, that was helpful.

We use an API of TIDAL’s that gives us access to the FLAC files, but their app uses a different mechanism we don’t have access to. The FLACs are served up via a CDN and the CDN is dropping the connection on us randomly. It’s unclear why. Your tests shows that aggressive retries will indeed allow us to recover.

Let us play with this more and we’ll be back for more info if we need it. We’ll also talk to TIDAL to see what’s up with this mechanism and the CDN.

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2 posts were split to a new topic: Slowness sometimes when playing tidal tracks

I guess I’ve to learn some vocabulary API, ISP, CDN…
Hopefully I’ll find an explanation. :wink:

That’s it for this part

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InternetServiceProvider is like Telekom or Vodafone in Germany. The guys to deliver your internet at home.

CDN the infrastructure or services in the background to deliver media at great scale

To expand on Bernd’s definition: CDN = Content Delivery Network

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