Track Skipping, Queue mishandling, Crossfade Issues

Hi Guys,

This problem hasn’t gone away though the 1.1 release cleared up skipped tracks that were being marked corrupt.

Whenever I play one of my 320kbps rips,-which is the majority of my library - Roon skips tracks, sometimes the next track or the next two tracks. The error occurs at the end of the current track, about when crossfade starts. (I have the crossfade set to zero seconds.) The current track ends abruptly, the next track appears and plays for a fraction of a second before Roon skips to the next track. A twelve track albums will play 4 or 5 tracks. The skipped tracks will play fine when selected individually. Skipping also occurs if I set up a queue of 320kbps rips from different albums.

The history will show the track as having played “Just now.” When two tracks have been skipped, the history will show both tracks as having played “Just Now.”

This problem doesn’t happen when Roon is: playing from Tidal, playing a hi-res album, or any music I have re-ripped to FLAC/ALAC/AIFF. It also doesn’t occur on any iTunes downloads. It seems it only occurs on the 320kbps rips.

I use iTunes to mange everything in my library except hi-res. The albums and tracks play fine in album sequence in iTunes.

MacMini (mid 2011) w/8G memory and 500G HD. The music files are on an external Seagate GoFlex 1TB drive connected via firewire. DAC is a Geek Out 450.

I have used Roon’s rescanning feature on individual albums with no success. I just finished re-importing the iTunes library and this had no effect.

Please let me know if there are any settings I should check and if there is any other information I can provide.

Thank you.

Tom

(Yes, this issue is several months old. In the meantime I’ve been enjoying Roon’s other features, downloading hi-res tracks, and using Roon’s excellent Tidal integration. I’ve been avoiding following up on this thinking a version release might clear it up.)

Hi Tom,
What happens where volume levelling is switched off?

Thanks for replying.

Volume levelling is off. Has been off since installing.

T.

What format are these 320 rips?
What software did you rip them with ? Assume all CD in origin?

My hunch is that it is something peculiar about these files.

These are CD rips done using iTunes. The format is MP3. Variable Bit Rate, Set for the highest quality at the original sample rate.

Other than my musical taste, I’m not sure what else is peculiar about these files. They play fine in iTunes and with iTunes and Bitperfect running.

Thanks for asking and I will follow any suggestions you may have to clear up this issue concerning about 18000 tracks.

Is there something else unique about these files? E.g. The folder or location ?
Just thinking whether you could move all or some of the problem albums to a different device or folder. Maybe not on the FireWire device you have them on just now. This might just rule out something.

Just throwing out a few ideas.

Nick,

I am sharing a suspicion along those same lines.

The folder hierarchy follows the OSX/iTunes default structure on the external drive:

/Media Drive/Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/Music

The iTunes libraries are in the iTunes folder on that drive. I have iTunes set to “share” the XML file with external programs but apparently Roon won’t read the XML file (or an alias of it) unless it is on the default - boot, not external - drive. (I think I have that information correct, having gathered it from reading through this forum.)

The music library is now too large to move back to the boot drive. If I were to replace that drive it would be with a SSD as is recommended by Roon. (Read that someplace here.)

It’s what is happening during the crossfade that puzzles me. See, I don’t have crossfade enabled in Roon. Yet it attempts to begin the next track about seven-eight seconds from the end of the current track. Why? Is there a tag in the MP3 calling for crossfade? I don’t see a setting for that tag in iTunes. What that in one of the earlier iTunes versions? I have wondered about this for awhile. (Most of the MP3s were created using iTunes for Windows in XP; but I am now a happy (somewhat) Apple user.) Crossfade isn’t a tag, is it?

Thanks,

Tom

Can you double check that x-fade is OFF?

If you are getting a x-fade effect with it off then something is up. I am not aware of any tags that drive such behaviour.

Even though you can’t fit all albums on the boot drive…just test a few perhaps.

Crossfade is set to 0 seconds. If there a switch to turn it “off” I don’t know where it is.

I am experimenting with your suggestions above moving some 320kbps MP3s over to boot drive. I will report back ASAP.

Thanks for your time on this.

T

I moved a few albums over to a new watched folder on the boot drive. I deleted the albums from itunes.

The albums showed up as recent additions in the Roon Overview screen.

However, they played the same. Approx 7-8 secs from the end of the track the transport indicator cleared and the music stopped. A few milliseconds of the next track started to play, then the transport and audio skipped to the the next track.

Something is peculiar about these files - or about the way my Roon setup is handling them.

Even with zero crossfade, something should be happening about 7-8 secsonds from the track end. The next song should begin to be loaded in order for its artwork and audio to play within a very short time from the end of the track in play.

Something is peculiar to the “header” of the file or the way my Roon setup is looking at that “header.” (i use the term “header” here because I dont know the specific term for the part of the mp3 file that tells the player the type of transcoding, time, etc. contained in that file.)

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Tom,

I would suggest converting a few albums to another file format using an up to date conversion utility and then converting them back to mp3. If there is an issue with the file format then the transcoding may clear it up.

Hi,

I was thinking of something like that. An Mp3 inspection utility. I will look into that.

Thanks,

Tom

All,

I’ve been using XLD to rip CDs. I will convert a few of those MP3s to AIFF AND RE-import them. Will let you know how that goes.

I wish Roon offered a ripping utility as part of it’s library management.

I am open to suggestions if anyone has a preference over XLD.

Thanks,

Tom

I would suggest using a different program than the one used to create the files if experimenting with transcoding. I have no experience of it but this converter is free and could show whether the problem disappears after transcoding:

Thank you Andrew.

The MP3s were created using iTunes on Windows XP from about 2006-2013. I now use XLD but am open to suggestions like yours.

I will convert the MP3s to AIFF and try them in that format. Obviously doing this in a batch format will be the quickest way to get those tracks in a ready state. If they work then I will leave them in that state until I am able to re-rip the source CDs. A time-consuming process that needs to be streamlined for me. Fortunately, I understand the pitfalls much better now.

Thanks for the input.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Lets see how the transcoding codes goes, but something to think about going forwards it to re-rip your CDs to a lossless format. It seams a shame to be missing out on the music quality.

If you need do need MP3 for portable listening then you can always batch transcode the lossless files and generate a MP3 copies.

I see your using XLD that’s cool, if you wish to try out another package have a look a dBpoweramp which is my go to Ripper / Batch Transcoder …

I agree with @Carl here too on the lossless rips. Your DAC can handle all sorts of stuff by te looks of it so you will get better results with lossless rips.

Just another thought…would you mind taking some screen grabs of your audio settings and pasting in here. I would just like to rule out that you don’t have something wrong here.

Hello Nick,

The comments re lossless rips are appreciated. At this point it’s like preaching to the choir. Everything I rip now is done lossless.

When I started ripping my collection at 320kbps using iTunes it was based upon the economies of device/disk capacity AND about getting the most out of the original music file. I figured 320 was better than 256. Even today, with my 60 year old ears, I will fail a blind test of 320kbps vs lossless 75% of the time. Better gear reveals the differences, that’s for sure.

I’ve uploaded 3 shots. The Output Settings shot is after having clicked on the gear icon next to the Geek Out Zone.

I’ve transcoded a couple of albums from MP3 to AIFF and… …they play fine to the end of the track and follow the queue. Instead of solving anything though, it adds to my confusion. If the MP3s transcode to a good file, then what was wrong with the original file? :expressionless:

I will PM the appropriate contributors with a DropBox link to a few of my troubled albums.

I sincerely appreciate your companionship on this part of my audio journey.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Pleased to hear that the problem seems to have been isolated. Let’s leave a notification for @mike who I think may be interested in looking at the MP3 files to check why they prompt Roon to skip through them as you’ve described.

I notice that you’re using Force Maximum Volume (which sends a control signal to the DAC) rather than Disable Volume Control (which sends no signal). FMV is useful where the DAC may be left in a different volume setting by some other input or program. You might check whether DVC makes a difference, but I can’t think of any logical reason why it should.

I switched off the FMV setting. Shut down Roon. Rebooted. Ran Roon. Confirmed FMV off.

I am afraid there is no effect on the playback of the files.

But I do appreciate the suggestion.

Thank you,

Tom