After about two years of trial and error in my own search for the bug, I’m finally ready to ask for help.
So, the problem, as described in the subject line, is that Roon repeatedly interrupts the playback of 192 kHz (occasionally 96 kHz) tracks from Tidal and Qobuz, stating “a network problem / connection too slow.” Its not at every song, sometimes a hour no problem then the next 3 songs (not same) problem…
I’ve gradually replaced all of my hardware and followed every help and every post in the Roon forum – below is my current setup and what I’ve already done… Equipment:
Internet: 1000 NetCologne Cable – Germany
Router: Fritzbox Cable 6690
All devices are now connected via Cat 8 cables except for the tablet for control
Switch: Silent Angel Bonn N8
Server: Nucleus+ 1st Generation
DAC/Integrated Amplifier: Krell-300i
What have I already tried without success – tried replacing:
All cables have been replaced at least once
Internet upgraded to 1000 Mbit
Router replaced (same model)
Roon Server installed on different PCs
Network reduced to 2 devices on the router: Nucleus + Krell + (Wi-Fi – Tablet)
Nucleus+ connected to the amplifier via LAN and USB – error remains
Turn off all DSP functionality
Tested all settings in the router, from prioritization to Native IPV4, DHCP / Static,…
Alternatives that work flawlessly in the same setup Works:
I had no issues with Audirvana and Mconnect.
I don’t have any problems when I connect Tidal to the Krell via USB on my Blusound Node N130. - However, when I control the Bluesound Node via Roon, I experience issues again.
After all this trial and error, I’ve come up with a few possible causes that I can’t narrow down further with my fairly extensive IT knowledge.
Tidal → Bluesound → Krell → works – not a fundamental LAN/WAN problem.
Interference with the LAN and USB connection between the Core and the amplifier → not a LAN problem.
I’ve narrowed down the problem to the internet and the Core.
Bandwidth and physical connection. Cat. 8 cables shouldn’t be the problem.
My remaining ideas, which I can’t analyze further, are: Buffer / Latency / RAAT.
Please help!!! Thx! Please throw any idea into the room thanks !
Did you ever try without grounded Cat-8 cables or did you install them properly like they would be in their intended setting and measured the ground potential?
During the troubleshooting process, I went from Cat 6 to Cat 7/7e to Cat 8. I’ve probably had 20 different cables in my setup by now—I think the physical cabling factor can be ruled out.
Thanks for reaching out! I have gone ahead and activated diagnostics for your Nucleus and what this does is send us a log set for review.
I am glad you reached out to us because I am looking over the log set and I noticed that your Nucleus is reporting SSD errors, meaning you likley have a failing hard drive that needs to be replaced, this could explain the unexpected playback failures.
Edit update: I checked the logs again and noticed that the failing drive is actually your Internal Storage drive, not the M.2 SSD. While the internal storage drive failing can cause issues, the M.2 doesn’t appear to have errors at this time. You should replace the internal storage at your earliest convenience, but we will also proceed with additional troubleshooting.
Thank you for clarifying - if that’s the case, let’s hold off on the SSD replacement until we’ve thoroughly troubleshoot to rule out other factors.
Let’s first verify that the URLs for the Tidal/Qobuz APIs are resolving as expected. In your router DNS settings, verify that a reliable server is assigned (we recommend QuadNine, 9.9.9.9, or Cloudflare, 1.1.1.1).
Just for due diligence - are there any switches, range extenders, mesh nodes, or access points in the network topology above that haven’t been listed?
We see the RoonServer instance you installed on your PC, but it hasn’t been active in a week. It would be highly illuminating to see logs around this symptom with the PC as the server.
At your convenience, please re-authenticate the server on the PC and play back 192KHz content from streaming services until you experience the dropout. Please share the name of the track that was playing here.
We’ll watch for your response and immediately investigate logging of the event. Thank you!
First Part - DNS:
DNS - I also switched already during my troubleshooting from the ISP-Setting to “google”-settings 8.8.8.8 / 8.8.4.4 - but okay I’ll switch again … but this will not be the answer I think.
→ realy belive me I read every topic in this forum - and tried it .-)
2nd Part - Physic:
I dont use any mesh or wlan device right now in my network
But yes I use a 2nd switch (a few different in the last years) in my network - but not in the chain between router - core - IntegredAmplifier
Now I’ll focus #1 to try to force an error on Nucleus+ with timestamp/song
Alfter this I’ll try to replicate this on my PC
@ Technical Support: Please be so kind, to read my initial post: #1: Your first guess was: to change my ssd → as written: - “same error on other PC” #2: Your 2nd guess was: change dns → as written " Tested all settings in the router,…"
When I get the slow connection on my nucleus, I do the old faithful, turn off the nucleus and turn it on. The problem goes away. I think the Roon Nucleus has a memory leak issue.
Thanks for the timestamps and additional info! I’ve enabled logging for your account and I am looking over the errors provided then.
04/05 16:45:29 Trace: [.NET ThreadPool Worker] [Krell K-300i @ 192.168.178.20:57410] [raatclient] GOT [5570] {"status":"Playing"}
04/05 16:45:29 Trace: [.NET ThreadPool Worker] [Krell K-300i @ 192.168.178.20:57410] [raatclient] GOT [5571] {"status":"Success","time":37470490702000}
04/05 16:45:29 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 16:45:30 Trace: [RaatSender] [KRELL K-300i] [Enhanced 42.3x, 24/192 QOBUZ FLAC => 24/192] [PLAYING @ 0:00/2:47] The Middle - Jimmy Eat World
04/05 16:45:30 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 16:45:31 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 16:45:32 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 16:45:33 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 16:45:34 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 16:45:35 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 16:45:36 Trace: [RaatSender] [KRELL K-300i] [Enhanced 50.3x, 24/192 QOBUZ FLAC => 24/192] [PLAYING @ 0:05/2:47] The Middle - Jimmy Eat World
04/05 16:45:36 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 16:45:36 Trace: [.NET ThreadPool Worker] [Krell K-300i @ 192.168.178.20:57410] [raatclient] GOT [5570] {"status":"Dropout","samples":58978}
04/05 16:45:37 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 16:45:37 Trace: [.NET ThreadPool Worker] [Krell K-300i @ 192.168.178.20:57410] [raatclient] GOT [5570] {"status":"Dropout","samples":92160}
04/05 16:45:37 Trace: [.NET ThreadPool Worker] [Krell K-300i @ 192.168.178.20:57410] [raatclient] GOT [5570] {"status":"Dropout","samples":92160}
04/05 16:45:38 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 16:45:39 Warn: [66] FTMSI-B-OE qo/F109E45A: poor connection kbps:2357.0 (min:6158.0)
04/05 16:45:39 Warn: [Broker:Transport] [zone KRELL K-300i] Track Stopped Due to Slow Media
04/05 19:28:02 Trace: [RaatSender] [KRELL K-300i] [Enhanced 15.0x, 24/192 QOBUZ FLAC => 24/192] [PLAYING @ 0:51/4:00] Two Tickets To Paradise (Album Verision) - Eddie Money
04/05 19:28:02 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:02 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:03 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:03 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:03 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:03 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:04 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:04 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:04 Trace: [.NET ThreadPool Worker] [Krell K-300i @ 192.168.178.20:57410] [raatclient] GOT [15427] {"status":"Dropout","samples":47497}
04/05 19:28:04 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:04 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:04 Trace: [Broker:Media] [library/compute] computing 10 / 10 tracks
04/05 19:28:04 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:04 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:04 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:04 Trace: [.NET ThreadPool Worker] [Krell K-300i @ 192.168.178.20:57410] [raatclient] GOT [15427] {"status":"Dropout","samples":59657}
04/05 19:28:04 Trace: [.NET ThreadPool Worker] [roondns] flushed 18 last-known-good entries
04/05 19:28:05 Debug: [RaatSender] [prebuffer] sleeping in read -- this isn't good
04/05 19:28:05 Trace: [Broker:Media] [dbperf] flush 343765 bytes, 191 ops in 58 ms (cumulative 11949442 bytes, 13377 ops in 59418 ms)
04/05 19:28:05 Warn: [99] FTMSI-B-OE qo/D462983D: poor connection kbps:5426.0 (min:7369.0)
As you can see in the log traces above, both tracks appear to have stoppages due to poor connection errors where the speed required to buffer the track is insufficient.
The processing speed seems ok at 42x and 15x, so this issue is either with fetching the track from Qobuz or with getting the stream sent to the Krell.
If you try to play back to the Nucleus HDMI zone (even if there is nothing connected), I wonder if there will be errors that show up in logging.
Have you tried to bypass the switch and connect directly to the Fritbox yet? Do the router logs show any errors when you also have errors with streaming?
Also, not sure if you saw my edit, but I did a double check on the error for this and it is with your internal storage, not the M.2. You’ll want to replace the internal when you have a chance, but yes, you are right that it is unrelated to the main issue at hand.
Fingers crossed, but after receiving the same intermittent issue with 24/192 Qobuz streams, I repurposed my MacBook Air M2/24GB Memory that was running my core to a new MacBook Air M4/36GB Memory.
It’s been 10 days thus far without issues, but time will tell whether the issue was CPU and/or Memory related. I’ll share updates if anything changes.
I don‘t use the HDMI, I tried to connect the Nucleus to the Krell via USB, but there where the same issue. —> So I think it‘s Not the path between Nuclues and Krell, I think its the internet Connection in latency or a Router Setting.
Yes connected Krell and Nucleus directly to the Fritz router, same error.
I checked the router log, there where no errors.
After this Weekend I switched back to my Bluesound Krell combination without roon, all works fine……sorry to say so.
Hi Malte, I also have a problem with slow downloads. That was the mistake!! The Nuc One was delivered last week! Delivery and shipping with notification were perfect. Installation (without installing an SSD) was quick. But then during operation, Music stutters and Roon stops. Without making any changes to the network or anything else, the error message “slow data transfer, hardware problems!” came up without any changes to the network or anything else. This problem occurred because I only swapped the One for the Nucleus+! Put the Nucleus+ back into operation and everything was working as normal! At the same time, I noticed that ARC was interrupting every download and reporting connection problems. So I searched and found the error! On the Melco Switch S100, the Melco N1Z (music storage) was on a 100MB port! I plugged the N1Z into the 1GB port. Activated the Nucleus One again and hey presto, it plays without any problems! The same goes for ARC, downloads are now very fast! Apparently the hardware of the One is more demanding than that of the 5 year old Nucleus+!
You never stop learning
Maybe it will help!
You wouldn’t need to have anything connected to the HDMI, if you can just play to it with nothing connected, then we can take a look to see if there are errors in the logging.
I wonder if this could be an issue with Buffer Bloat, where specific data can’t make it through in time when the network is saturated:
Hello Noris, I’ve already tested all the settings for device prioritization! I haven’t noticed any significant benefits in my network. Maybe it is useful if devices with high network traffic are operated!
here a few replies according to bufferbloat - seemed to be not the best but okay.
Maybe as a shared medium there’ll be the problem dorung peak-time in the evening.
This day I start listening via HDMI - I’ll keep nyou updated if/when the error occurs.
Regarding the topic qos - I’ll think I have tried everything the router provides:
In both way’s to turn off everything and turn on everything - but I’ll check again regarding the links you provide.
I didn’t have to wait long, at 03:33 pm round about; short after the start of the song: " You’ve git a friend" - James Taylor; it skipped the first time with HDMI.
I can stream 24/192 Qobuz flawlessly all day every day with similar buffer bloat numbers. I even use wireless to my Auralic Aries G2, in fact all my playback devices are wireless.
I currently use a piHole for DNS with cloudfare behind it. Everything was fine without the pihole so that’s not it.
I run an Asus AX88U Pro router. I’m thinking it’s something to do with your FRITZ!Box as @noris has already brought up.
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in the last years.
