Mac mini 2018
Processor: 3.2 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i7
Memory: 16 GB 2667 MHz DDR4
Big Sur 11.3.1
Network Details
TP-Link wireless router Archer C9
TP-Link TL-PA9020P Powerline adapter (for Ethernet over power to router)
TP-Link TL-WPA8630 Wi-Fi Range Extender (for Ethernet over power to Pulse Flex Mini 2i speaker | also for Wi-Fi connectivity for iPad used in most remote room)
SB6183 Arris Cable Modem
Netgear FS105 switch between router and cable modem
Unstable Roon Ready and Airplay.
Each Roon Ready speaker (Bluesound Pulse Flex Mini 2i) would play for a few seconds if I streamed a radio station such as Radio Paradise. My Airplay Oppo Sonica speaker played the radio stream with dropouts. As soon as I would try to stream an album from Qobuz or Tidal the Roon Ready speakers become highly unstable and finally disappeared altogether. Zero playback. The Airplay speaker would not play. The Roon Ready speakers remained unstable through cycling disable/enable and would seem to stabilize only after uninstalling and reinstalling Roon. Then would become unstable again as described above.
This sounds like a network problem, doesn’t it? So I took a Bluesound Pulse Flex Mini 2i speaker and my Mac mini over to the Wi-Fi router (TP-Link) and plugged them both into Ethernet ports on the back of the router. I got the same results as described above.
My Roon installation was working fine (installed early April) until I upgraded to Mac OS 11.3 (May 2). Don’t know if Mac OS update is the cause of my problem. There was a power glitch that day, too, and maybe my network was configured just right for Roon, but lost that golden set up due to the power glitch.
I see somewhat similar issues posted here, but nothing exactly the same.
Upon initial inspection, there are definitely a couple of potential red flags — As we note in our Networking Guide, powerline adapters and range extenders are definitely something we recommend against in most cases as we’ve seen them cause instability like what you’re seeing here.
That’s definitely a helpful test, and knowing that this didn’t help definitely helps to rule out some variables. If possible, I’d recommend keeping this configuration as we troubleshoot so we aren’t adding other variables back in. Once we get this configuration working, we can go back to the old configuration.
Starting out
Do you have any local content? It would be helpful to understand if this is limited to streaming content or if the source doesn’t matter here.
Similarly, do you have any issues playing to System Output of the Core machine?
Hi, Dylan. Thank you very much for working with me.
System output works. I can direct system output to the Mac mini speakers or any AirPlay speaker such as my Oppo Sonica or my Bluesound Pulse Flex Mini 2i. Note: This works in both the complex and the simplified configurations.
I have loaded music files on my Mac mini and am ready for the next troubleshooting step. Note: I have verified that Roon can play the downloaded music files. I have 44/16, 96/24, and 176/24 files.
Hi, Dylan. Playing music stored on the Mac mini from the simple set up (only the Wi-Fi router connected, all other power line adapters unplugged from the wall) and the Bluesound Pulse Flex Mini 2i become unstable and cannot play music. The system set up is both Mac mini and Bluesound connected via Ethernet to the Wi-Fi router. Please advise on next steps. Thank you. —Alex
Hi, Dylan. I wanted to let you know that 2 or 3 times after reinstalling Roon I get a dialog box asking if it is okay to let an IP address connect to local machine or Roon. The options are Never, Just this time, or Always. I chose Always. I did it for Roon one time and I did it for local machine the other times.
Hi, Dylan. Thank you for sharing the link to the Roon networking article. I read it and made changes. I got Roon to work again. Speaker connection problems persist. Roon Core easily loses connection to Roon Ready Bluesound Wi-Fi speakers. Usually happens after closing and opening Roon Core. Also happens spontaneously. What advice do you have regarding intermittent connection to Roon Ready Bluesound speakers? I would like your help to make my Roon installation more stable.
—What I have Done—
Installed latest Wi-Fi router firmware.
Removed Ethernet over power adapters.
Removed second Wi-Fi access point connected to router over power line Ethernet.
Moved Wi-Fi router to a central location. The Roon Core is connected directly to the Wi-Fi router via Ethernet cable (it used to be connected to the router via Ethernet over power line).
Using only local files. No Tidal or Qobuz music service connected.
Developed a workaround procedure to force Roon Ready Bluesound speakers to connect to Roon Core.
6a. Use only Roon Remote running on iPad.
6b. Play music to Roon Ready Bluesound speakers using AirPlay.
6c. Transfer music from AirPlay to Roon Ready on the same speaker. Result: Roon Remote crashes on iPad, which is okay. This is part of the procedure.
6d. Relaunch Roon Remote on iPad and try it again. Repeat until the music successfully transfers to the Roon Ready “side” of the Bluesound Wi-Fi speaker.
I’m really lucky I have Roon Remote on iPad…otherwise I would NEVER be able to reconnect Roon Core to speakers. Note: I did not realize it until about a week ago, but my iPad OS and Android Roon remotes were unable to connect to Roon Core. I restored Remote connection during step 1, above.
—Other Problems—
A. AirPlay works for only a handful of files. No pattern as to which files work.
B. Speaker connection problems are the same whether I have Norton 360 Firewall Connection blocking switched off or on. Although with Norton on I am often asked to allow localhost to access RAATServer on my computer. Seems like Norton might be a problem, but symptoms don’t change when I turn off connection blocking in Norton. Note: I have not tried disabling the Wi-Fi router firewall at the same time the Norton Connection Blocking Firewall is disabled.
C. I am unable to play music when both the Roon Core and the Bluesound speaker are both connected directly to the Wi-Fi router. Note: I have not tried all Ethernet again since I developed the workaround procedure.
D. Pictures of albums do not, for the most part, show up in my Android Roon Remote. It seems like they are very slowly filling in, very slowly.
E. Connection between iPad Roon Remote and Roon Core drop a lot. It usually reconnects, but sometimes I have to toggle Airplane Mode on the iPad to make it reconnect.
F. Final note: When I first installed Roon Core in early April, it worked well and much better than it does now. On May 2 in the morning I had a power glitch. Later that day I installed a Mac OS update. The evening of May 2 I noticed Roon would not play to either of my Roon Ready Bluesound Wi-Fi speakers in Roon Ready mode (I did not try AirPlay mode until very recently). I assumed it was the Mac OS update, but it may have been the power glitch that broke Roon. It has been a long path back to Roon working again. It doesn’t seem like the steps I’ve taken tie directly to what happened when Roon stopped working on May 2.
Hi, Dylan. I discovered the cause of my problem: Norton 360 Vulnerability Protection. I switch it off and I can connect to all playback device on my local network and I can play any file via Airplay. I can switch Vulnerability Protection on after establishing connection to my playback devices and playback continues to work (except AirPlay). I will lose connection to playback devices if I restart Roon. In such case I switch off Vulnerability Protection, connect to my playback devices, then switch it on again.
I cannot discover Vulnerability Protection Exception settings that make it so playback on my local network is unimpeded by Vulnerability Protection. If you learn of such exception settings, please share it with me. In the meantime I will seek a remedy with Norton support and post that here if it is possible to make it so Vulnerability Protection can be configured to allow Roon. Thank you.
Hi Alex, if i understand your comments correctly, you appear to be using two firewalls. If that is correct then it could be the cause of your problems. It is only recommended to use one firewall on a given network as two can “work against each other” and cause erratic behaviour which might be the reason for your problems.
One firewall should be able protect both physical & wi-fi connections.
Hi, Paul. Many thanks for letting me know about the potential for trouble when more than one firewall is in play. Two weeks ago Norton level 2 support did a remote take over of my machine and attempted to set exceptions such that Roon would fully function with Vulnerability Protection switched on. (They could not fix it.) I mentioned to him your insights about the SPI firewall in my router being on. He switched it off and saw that it did not affect the problem so he switched it back on so that all the other devices on my network continue to sit behind the router’s firewall. At the end of the call he said that level 3 support would be contacting me in 3 or 4 days but they have not reached out yet. When they solve my problem I will talk to them again about the SPI firewall in my Archer C9 router and see what they recommend I do regarding Norton with its firewall and the router firewall. Hopefully we they can provide definitive insights whether Norton firewall (or parts of it) should be shut down when the computer running Norton is behind a router firewall. Thanks again for taking the time to guide me.
Hi Alex, as @wizardofoz mentioned RAAT also needs to be allowed through the firewall and maybe the issue. However, if RAAT is already passing through BOTH of the firewalls it still points to issues with Norton or indeed the two firewall issue.
It should be easy enough to check if there’s a rule allowing RAAT through (our friend google may be of help). Irrespective of the outcome it is still inadvisable to operate two firewalls, your router should be able to do all that is required. If you’re concerned about your Wi-fi being hacked then a monitoring System such as the Fing app (there are others) might be a better option.
Thanks, Wizardofoz. I’ve tried to find RAATServer and add it to the list of allowed apps in Norton, but I cannot. I’ve been able to drill into the RAAT folders, but cannot find a clickable file (this is drilling in through the Norton 360 Firewall settings). Can you share with me the path and filename? Thanks.
Many thanks for your guidance. Working in Norton Firewall Connection Blocking I discovered I could navigate to the locations you specified by clicking Add application…, Other…, Options, then marking the Show invisible applications checkbox. I added RAATServer to the list of applications that are not subject to connection blocking. (I do not think this had any effect, but it needed to be done.)
Glad you were able to help me with my problem and to learn more about my computer (Mac mini).
Thank you.
—Alex
P.S. Most of the issues I described were remedied when on Tuesday when Norton updated me to release 8.6.6 build 2 (was release 8.6.4, build 54[?]). In their release notes it states, “Fixes for connectivity issues related to Printer, File Sharing, Remote access apps, when Vulnerability Protection is enabled.” This note is what fixed my problems.
What is still not perfect 1): On occasion when using AirPlay I have to switch off Vulnerability Protection, start the AirPlay, then switch Vulnerability Protection back on. This is mostly when starting a new stream or switching the stream from one zone to another.
What is still not perfect 2): Every time I start Roon I have to allow the connection from localhost (127.0.0.1, port 5353 [used to be port 9003]) to Roon. Norton 360 cannot remember that I want it to allow it all the time.
What is still not perfect 3): In Norton 360 I have to switch off Application Blocking because it questions and wants to block everything (even Norton Safe Web Plus…its own stablemate!). Good news is that switching off Application Blocking does raise the Norton red flag, so I am at peace with leaving this switched off in the Norton 360 Firewall settings.
Hi Alex, good to hear you’ve made some progress. I would certainly recommend passing your items 1 - 3 back to Norton then hopefully they’ll provide a bug fix in the future.
